Road To Rebirth: A Jurassic Podcast
It’s 2025 and we have a new ‘Jurassic’ film releasing! With original JP screenwriter returning to write the new film and Godzilla and Rogue One director Gareth Edwards taking the reins excitement couldn’t be higher so what better time to revisit where it all started. I will be taking a deep dive in to the original Crichton novels and all the films and tv series over the next few months leading up to the July 2nd release date.
Road To Rebirth: A Jurassic Podcast
Jurassic Park (1993) with Derrick Davis
If you are as excited as I am about Jurassic World Rebirth which is releasing this summer this is the podcast for you. Each week in the lead up to the film I am going to be sitting down with a guest to discuss an entry or aspect of the Jurassic franchise.
This is episode two and it’s all about ‘Jurassic Park’, the Oscar winning 1993 film that launched a billion dollar franchise.
We talk about our first experiences of seeing the film and Derrick gives a very detailed history of the various drafts the scripts went through.
We also discuss our excitement for Jurassic World Rebirth and the concepts from those early scripts that might show up in the new film.
Guest Name: Derrick Davis
- Bio: Derrick is a JP super fan who has managed to find some exciting treasures of its lengthy pre production.
- Links: Website, Instagram, Twitter/X
Next week I’m chatting with Guy Adams about Crichton’s writing style and process and also there’s the second part of my interview with James Lovegrove exploring Crichton sequel novel; The Lost World.
If you enjoy the show then it would mean a lot to me if you could rate & review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps this show find more Jurassic fans like you!
Follow the show on social media
Instagram: @roadtoberebirthpod
Theme Music by Caleb Burnett
Logo By @SiteBNetwork
#RoadtoRebirthPod
This is just a warning to say that this episode features spoilers, mild language and lots of talk about dinosaurs. Now if that's not for you, then drop what you're doing and leave now. Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. Steven Spielberg's 1993 film Jurassic Park He started the YouTube channel Jurassic Time and has produced several audio dramas based on Jurassic Park scripts and properties like the Trespasser video game. We will discuss all of that in today's episode. But he's also somebody who has unearthed many hidden treasures and behind the scenes secrets and conducted lots of interviews with people who were involved in the production of Jurassic Park. It's a fun conversation. So let's just dive straight in. Please welcome to the show, Derek Davis. Hi, Derek. How are you doing? I'm doing good. How about you? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited to be talking about jurassic park um but first are you excited for rebirth
SPEAKER_01:i am but i'm apprehensive and i'll try to explain why you know after jurassic world dominion ended it had an ending it may not have been the best ending but it had an ending but then you know having kep involved and having gareth edwards involved which i think is great because i wish he would have done a He's such a good talent. But from the story, the fact that they're walking back, the dinosaurs kind of being everywhere, and now they're kind of died off. I just don't know if going back to, you know, an isolated place is really what it has led up to. I kind of wish it would have been like a midquel, like a story between Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World. I think that would have made a lot more sense than doing... this kind of thing but
SPEAKER_00:yeah i feel like maybe we're getting that but that kind of story but a sequel that when kind of looking at jurassic park and um spielberg's like taking of the book and things he he seems uninterested in dinosaurs out in the real world or that being part of because that's a big part of michael crichton's book and and the lost world his his sequel but spielberg wasn't really interested in having that in the first film and the bit at the end of the lost world where he just puts in the t-rexes is kind of nod to king kong more than anything
SPEAKER_01:and you know i don't really have a huge problem with that like honestly i do agree that going back to an isolated location is a lot more interesting and intense of a story than just having them everywhere and and co-existing as the end of dominion made it made its message be which i'm just like i don't buy that you know like i don't really in today's worlds especially I don't believe that for a second I'm in the kind of mindset where you know it remains to be seen like show me let me see how you did this then I'll either like it or I'll not care for it that much so I'm yeah I'm cautiously optimistic I guess yes what I'm simply
SPEAKER_00:that's probably the safest thing to be I think for the seventh yeah a franchise
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah but there is there is one thing I am definitely excited for and that is the the lagoon sequence that we're finally getting from the novel yeah I'm sure you saw that coming yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah no yeah very very excited for that
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah it's It's been a long time coming. I mean, that sequence has such a ride, literally, too, because it was originally going to be in the movie, and it was in the early scripts and everything, which I know we'll get at. But it was also turned into a ride that they were creating before the first movie was even released, which is kind of insane, if you think about that. And, you know, some people would argue, yeah, we got a bit of that in Jurassic Park 3 with the Spinosaurus, you know, against the boat, but having... a dinosaur especially t-rex is you know everyone just loves t-rex but having any dinosaur in the water coming up from under a raft an inflatable raft you know such a thin membrane of plastic between you and whatever's underneath you know that's terrifying a lot more terrifying than being in like a sturdy boat you know what i mean so
SPEAKER_00:yeah and it's such a standout moment from the novel um so i so i take you're a fan of jurassic park There's probably something
SPEAKER_01:obvious there. Just a bit, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So how do you feel about trying to sum up Jurassic Park in this one episode? Can it be
SPEAKER_01:done? Oh, man. I don't... You know, the movie, maybe. The book is a whole different beast. I don't know if I can sum up the whole book as... It's such an interesting adaptation because it is very close to the book, but also very different from the book at the same time. It's kind of somehow able to accomplish both. It's both a good adaptation and also not at the same time. It's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00:So I wondered whether you could kick us off with a synopsis. for
SPEAKER_01:Jurassic Park. the island and make sure that it is safe for their guests. But unfortunately, even though the park is quite extraordinary as they tour it, something does go wrong and the dinosaurs break loose, havoc ensues, a few people die. But at the very end of the day, they all are, I mean, not all, but several of them are able to safely escape the island and it is safe to say that the park will not open. That's my cliff notes version.
SPEAKER_00:And the bit about the end, I always think about this at the end when the helicopter arrives, like when they first made that call, do you think they went, so how many helicopters do I need to send? Cause quite a few people. No, no, no. Just one helicopter will do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Just
SPEAKER_01:like two of us left.
SPEAKER_00:So we just won. What's your earliest memory about seeing it?
UNKNOWN:Um,
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's kind of a fun story. So let's go back in time to summer of 1993. I was about six years old, little kid Derek, little brat kid Derek. And I was playing in a park, like an actual park that was not far from a big drive-in theater. We used to have a drive-in theater in our town. And I saw the movie playing on the screen without audio, just like a certain moment. I honestly can't remember what moment it was. I think it was like the lunch scene you know with the projectors going and everything
SPEAKER_00:I saw that
SPEAKER_01:and then I saw like you know the visitor center exterior with like the dinosaur skeleton on it and I was like mom dad what's that movie and they said oh that's Jurassic Park I'm like oh I want to see that like isn't that the one with dinosaurs or like yeah but it's it's probably going to be too scary for you because you know I was six and like 90s kids weren't that you know hard shelled yet we hadn't seen all the craziness that came after um and but I insisted for at least a few weeks I was like I really want to see it people at kids at school were starting to talk about it which is like oh no well now I'm not cool because I haven't seen it yeah so They finally caved in, and then we went to the drive-in theater to see it, which, you know, if anyone's ever been to a drive-in theater, depending on the quality of the few that still exist, you know, it could be kind of a magical, unique experience, you know, very different than... any other watching a movie honestly you know being outdoors and having cars parked around you you know and they're kind of like either sitting in their car or right outside it kind of thing the speakers are either on like on a pole or it's from your car stereo which I'm like how did people's car batteries not die I don't know but yeah so we watched it in the drive and I remember I was in our car was like in reverse and like the trunk was open and like me and my sister were like in the trunk, kind of just watching it from there. And it, I remember being terrified. I think especially the T-Rex breakout, but for whatever reason, the spitter was what freaked me out the most because, you know, it acts all nice at first. You're like, Oh, kind of cute, you know? And then suddenly, you know, the, the hood flares open, it's spinning at you, at him. And, you know, it's a scary thing. moment and it's like how do we go from zero to 100 you know it's like what happened here so kid Derek was terrified I remember having nightmares but then for whatever reason I got over it and I was like I want to see it again my parents were like why you're so scared I'm like I don't know why but I need to see it again so then I kept going back and watching it ever since I've been That's been my favorite movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I don't, I don't actually remember the first, I was trying to think today that I don't actually remember the first time I watched it. Um, I didn't see it at the cinema or a drive in. Um, and I think that was down to the fact that I was far too scared of the Muppet Christmas Carol that came out, um, the Christmas before. And, uh, yeah, I hid under my dad's coat. It is, it's, it's when the, um, when, when the door knocker, changes and it screams that did me yeah i was so that kind of nixed any of my begging to try and go and see this film when it came to the cinema but i just always remember it being there i remember the endless wait for it to arrive on video which yeah like it probably about 10 years at that time it is part of me and i've you know i've seen it a thousand times in including today just before And every time I see something new and yeah, what amazed me actually today is having just read the novel, reread the novel, is its pace and efficiency. That first scene with the raptor. is just so brilliant and mysterious.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, definitely. Do you mean like the prologue where we don't even see it, we just see the results of it's a tag? Yeah, it is brilliant.
SPEAKER_00:It owes a lot to Jaws and particularly the inciting incident. But it's a big part of Jurassic films.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and sadly not all of them.
SPEAKER_00:No, yes. But most of
SPEAKER_01:them.
SPEAKER_00:Most of them. And I think David kept just such a fantastic job of taking that rather wordy, Crichton book and I'm just you know packaging that up and making it you know, a blockbuster film. I take it you've read the book.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. Several times. I especially love rereading it. Well, rereading it air quotes as an audio book. And there's a couple out there that are unabridged. My favorite being kind of a rare one by William Roberts, where he just gets so into it. Like this is the main road attack. Like he's almost growling as he's talking. Like it's not actually growling, but it's like, you feel that visceral terror. Yeah. By the way, he reads it and like, oh, my God. But and actually there in the 90s, there was an abridged audio book read by the late John Heard, a.k.a. the father from Home Alone of all
SPEAKER_00:people.
SPEAKER_01:And it was pretty good for its time. But, you know, it's an abridged like three hour version. So it cuts a bunch of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I love the music of it. It has some sound effects as well, doesn't it? Yeah, it has some interesting car journeys.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. And actually, I took it upon myself to actually find all the music from that version. It's all stock music. Yeah. And I was using like YouTube to like identify it because, you know, how you do get identify audio. So I was kind of using it like to help me find it instead of actually being like a copyright strike kind of thing. It's like, you know, using its own tools to help me identify things. So I was able to find using that, all the music from that. And it was all stock music from different people. It wasn't just made by one person.
SPEAKER_00:You know, Kett wasn't the first person to attempt to adapt this film by any means. Who was the first person to try and do this for Spielberg?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the first person was actually Michael Crichton himself, which not everyone really knows. And I have some notes here, everyone, by the way, just so I don't screw up some of this history and mess anything up as best as I can. I kind of wrote a lot of this from memory, but I kind of double checked some things. But basically, Michael Cryan completed two complete drafts. The first one was in September of 1990, which is crazy because the novel came out in November 1990. So he was working on the script before his book was even published. officially published. Like there was galleys, what they call like, you know, early reader copies going to people involved in the production. And obviously, when it was being shopped to different studios, that's the, the one good thing about being a famous writer in that at that point in his career, like he was able to do that before he even published his work. But anyway, so it's just crazy to me that he was doing this script, you know, broken down version of his own book. And the said that in writing Jurassic Park, because it took him many years to write Jurassic Park, apparently. In fact, at one point, the novel was from the perspective of the kids, Tim and Lex, which is wild. I wish that draft was out there somewhere to see it. But it eventually became from the perspective of adults, obviously. He didn't want anyone to make any of the same mistakes he did when trying to write his own book. when he pared it down for a script. So that was the main reason why he took it upon himself. He always knew that they wouldn't use his script. It was kind of like a stepping stone for the next writers was how it was done. So yeah, his first draft of it was in September 1990. And it was mostly like his novel, but it included added moments like Lex going back into the shed at the dock during the lagoon sequence to retrieve her baseball mitt. And she almost gets caught by the T-Rex while doing so. It's like, as if she wasn't annoying enough in the book causing the wrecks to come after them she goes and does this too so it's like he actually made her even less likable in this script for some reason the wild thing from this script is that Hammond had a secret radio in his bungalow the whole time because remember originally Hammond was kind of not a good person in
SPEAKER_00:the book
SPEAKER_01:so that carried over in this first script so yeah he had this secret like radio in his bungalow the whole time and then when he's caught he immediately pours water on it so no one can call the mainland so and this is after malcolm's already been injured and everything so he's like knowingly putting this guy's life on peril you know in peril and it's just wild
SPEAKER_00:but
SPEAKER_01:um i know i was like he made him even more evil in this script it's kind of amazing
SPEAKER_00:he had it in for him didn't
SPEAKER_01:they Oh, yeah. I mean, he really wanted as he explained it, the dark side of Walt Disney, like that's what he wanted out of John Hammond in the book. And that's what he got, especially in this. And Hammond's death in this script involves a skeleton falling on him when he's inside the visitor center rotunda after the climax has happened. And then the copies get him kind of like in the book. So he still dies from copies just in a different setting, basically. So those are kind of like the major things I remember from his original script that were different from the book. At that point, there wasn't really many ideas from the production team. It was mostly just stuff that he put in. But he did do a second draft in January 1991. There was like some revisions between that, but they were just kind of like sections. So his like second completed draft was in 1991 of January. And the most wild thing I remember from this script is that Nedry mentions how this is his second shipment to Dodgson, getting the embryos to him. It's the second time he's done this.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, wow. Meaning
SPEAKER_01:that dinosaur embryos have already gotten off the island. As you can imagine, the implications for the sequels, that could have completely changed everything if this detail had remained past this script. But it never went past this script. It was just this one. And I guess just a few other notes from this script. Al Hammond's death is in a theater room where a video of him is playing on the screen. He plays it to distract the Raptors so the kids can get away to safety during the climax. and when a raptor goes into the theater it kills hammond it after it kills him it like rips apart the screen where his video is playing of him talking it's kind of eerie there's storyboards of that out there too
SPEAKER_00:oh really okay yeah that's cool
SPEAKER_01:uh speaking of raptors the opening of the script has the the tina compy scene on the beach yes but it seems to replace it with a baby raptor instead of a compy it's kind of unclear because later on in that script it kind of makes it seem like it was a baby raptor. Yeah, because I think I think they they got rid of copies early on. Like there was some storyboards of the Tina Beach scene from before the first script even. but that's like the only time I've ever seen storyboards of the copies. So, so yeah, that's the Michael Crichton. That's all he did for the movie. He did those two scripts.
SPEAKER_00:Cause didn't, didn't, didn't production shut down at some point?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So production shut down, I believe in 1991. Yeah. It was like early 1991, pretty much not long after this script was done by Crichton because Spielberg went to go film hook. And during that time, his art department team continued to work while he was doing Hook. Like they, they didn't just all go home. Like they were still trying to storyboard sequences, either from Crichton's script or from stuff from the novel still, or just ideas that they talked about from production meetings. And one of those people did something a little crazy. And that person was Rick Carter, the production designer. And, you know, he oversees all the like, production of like you know the storyboard artists and everything like David Lowery or like the illustrators like John Bell and everything but what he did was and it's not something a production designer ever does he cobbled together a script using Crichton's final draft script that he had provided he took that script and kind of just rewrote parts of it some parts were identical but Most of the beginning and the ending especially were completely rewritten by Rick Carter, who is not a writer. And he just plopped in these ideas and added his own kind of makeshift dialogue to bring it together. And it's a pretty unique script, which is why me at Jurassic Time, I took a bunch of people and we created what I call illustrated audio drama of us performing it with the
SPEAKER_00:actual concept art. It's fantastic, by the way. It is amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on, especially because it was like a group effort. It was just such a fun thing to do. The script is pretty interesting. Like there were several things that were ideas from the art department and Spielberg and the novel and such as the lava fields, which were kind of mentioned in the novel that the island was a bit volcanic or it previously was and there was still like steam in places. And it's just interesting because there's even artwork of the lava fields and how that kind of looked. but it also had a baby raptor that Grant rescues and carries it in a makeshift pupus, I guess made from like a shrink. It's a cute visual to think about, which then leads
SPEAKER_00:on. I suppose that ties into Dominion that we get, you know, with Owen and the baby blue.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, as soon as I saw that, I was like, oh my God, the pupus. It's a better version of the pupus. It's a backpack. It's a bit cooler than a pupus, but we actually got that. How funny. Which in this script leads to the raptor den. which I don't remember it being in any other script, except this one that they go into, like in the novel, they go into the Raptor dead. It's like underground tunnel. Yeah. And I actually prefer the placement of this compared to the novel. Cause for people who've read the novel after the big climax with the Raptors in the visitor center happens, there's almost like a, it almost feels like a postscript section where they go, find the raptor den, the count the eggs. And it just, it always felt really random to me. Like we don't need this. It's like we did. It felt too extra. Um, So in this script, it just happens while they're lost in the park. They come across the baby raptor and it kind of like leads them in a way to the raptor den. This script by Rick Hart also had a shortened version of the lagoon sequence. It's interesting. It just kept getting shorter and shorter until it was
SPEAKER_00:just gone completely. Just gone completely.
SPEAKER_01:Completely gone. And then some interesting details though. Hammond wants Grant and Sattler to work for him at the park, which I think that's kind of a cool... idea and Hammond seems to die in every script except for you know David Koepp's version so in this version his death is in the control room also by a raptor but in this one he actually falls on a model of the park reminiscent to the one seen in Fallen Kingdom so it's like there's the model it came from yeah this so I just found that really interesting there's storyboards of that too so like maybe someone saw this park model and like oh yeah yeah lockwood's manor and i think it was intended this way in the script and in the artwork like it's kind of intended to be like oh the fall of his park you know with him literally falling on his park kind of thing as he dies yeah there was also an extended ending with the t-rex attacking the helicopter as they try to leave the island which i mean and there's artwork for that too and it's just really
SPEAKER_00:that was cut because of like practicalities or things you know because i
SPEAKER_01:think so and like it In a way, it's almost like how the novel went a little too extra with the Raptor Den. In a way, maybe this would have felt a little too extra as well in terms of the pacing. I mean, I know the reason why they added it in the first place, because this is the first time they did that, was because Spielberg did want the Rex to come back at the end, but they just couldn't figure it out. So that was like their first attempt of doing that, was having it come back and attack the helicopter, which we ended up basically getting at the opening of Fallen Kingdom. A lot of these things went to Fallen Kingdom. My
SPEAKER_00:favorite bit of the film, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, easily. I think for most people it is. It's such a good inciting incident. So that's basically the big differences I noted from Rick Carter's draft, which is more of a working document is what they officially like to call it because they don't want to get in trouble by the Script Writers Guild or whatever. There was actually one writer... After this, Malia Scotch-Marmot, who actually did script work for Hook. So, you know, Rick Carter's document was just to kind of like bring the ideas of everything together, you know, just to kind of show Steven like this is how they could be integrated into the movie. So from there, Malia Scotch-Marmot did her own script, you know, working very closely with Spielberg. And, you know, he met her through Hook. So like after he was done with that movie, he was like, oh, why don't you come along and try out Jurassic Park for us? Basically, her draft is totally different and unique with a focus on mosquitoes. Like she had very much a mosquito obsession in her script. Like they kept coming up in different ways, I guess, because the whole Amber connection. Yeah. But also the jungle like is slowly taking over elements in the park. You know, even before it opens, like things are kind of like like vines coming into the visitor center where they shouldn't be, almost just to show that nature is trying to reclaim kind of thing. So it's got interesting ideas. And in this version, Hammond gets left behind on the island. So I try to remember, he might stumble and fall like he does in the book. I don't remember exactly... Like if he, he's just kind of left on his own to die kind of thing. And again, he always dies until Kep comes in. So it's just funny. That's why I have an article of once I wrote called the many deaths of John Hammond. The Lagoon sequence is basically gone, but there is just like an attack during the raft ride. They still go on a raft. And I guess another big thing is Ian Malcolm is not in the script at all, which is interesting. But to be fair, this kind of combining or omitting characters happen with pretty much every screenwriter and kind of depended on like sometimes malcolm would be gone or ed regis would be gone or genera would be gone people remember this one for omitting malcolm the most because this was actually the first script that leaked online many years ago
SPEAKER_00:okay okay
SPEAKER_01:so yeah for for a long time the molly scotch marble draft was the only drastic script
SPEAKER_00:i think i read it years and years ago and i remember that being like a standout thing as where's malcolm
SPEAKER_01:yeah where's malcolm yeah so that's why but it's not unique to this script but it just kind of feels like it is to people because again yeah it's the one that has been around the longest which is odd because it was only one draft and I'm like who else got this and put it out there which finally leads us to David Koepp and he had several drafts beginning in late April through December of 1992. Believe it or not because David Koepp actually shared his original draft on his own website a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Oh really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah and it has like handwritten notes on it and everything like it's such a cool thing he did from what i remember kep also omitted malcolm from his original script so there you go like he took him out too i think the reason people were scared of malcolm being in the movie was that he was just too heavy on his theories and that people wouldn't be interested but he got added back in i don't know i forget if my memory serving me right but i think they brought malcolm back in because of jeff goldblum like his
SPEAKER_00:audition yeah that's what i've heard
SPEAKER_01:this script also has lex writing the baby you Triceratops, which was not something that happens in the novel. Some people, for whatever reason, feel like, oh, just like in the novel. I'm like, no, no, no. She never rides it in the novel. She plays with it, kind of, and talks to it, but she never actually rides it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've seen the models of the little trike, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the Stan Winston model. It was completed, painted, and everything, but then they never filmed it. They cut it before they even filmed it, which is... I think for the best, especially since they changed the ages of the kids, you know, having the older Lex ride a baby triceratops. I couldn't see her doing that. But most notably in Kep's original draft, the climax was a bit different. It was still in the rotunda with the raptors going after Grant and the others. But they're trying to get down from the upper level of the skeletons in the condor lift. And the raptors just kind of try to jump and bite at them as Grant's trying to operate this condor lift to raise and lower. And then it knocks against the skeleton kind of thing. So the... T-Rex does not come in to save the day at the end of this original Kep ending. Instead, John Hammond actually comes in saving the day by shooting the last raptor standing. So he goes from you know dying in every version to being the hero suddenly so quite a quite a journey his character went on yeah that's like the biggest difference I remember from Kep's like early drafts and that ending climax stuck stuck around for a while because they you know as the story goes they changed the climax with the Rex coming in to save the day kind of last minute they kind of had to like storyboarded very quickly. In fact, if you see the storyboards that I believe David Lowery did, they're very sketch-like compared to his other ones. They're very loose kind of lines. So you could tell it was just a very quick thing that they chose to do and plan out. I think we could all agree that it was the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love the fact that Spielberg wanted the Rex to come back and he was the one that really pushed for it. And I think they probably did that even when they were filming this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think the way Rick Carter explained it was Spielberg Spielberg was kind of explaining that scene, you know, like, oh, so the T-Rex comes in and it bites the raptor, blah, blah, blah. And then I think Rick asked him, like, well, where does the T-Rex come from? And then Spielberg said, from the top of the frame. But of course, you know, Rick meant like, where literally does it come from? But Spielberg would never, he doesn't think that way. He thinks of the dramatic moment, like, oh, it comes from the top of the frame. What are you talking about? So aren't you glad I took notes? Because that was the last time I wanted to get it right.
SPEAKER_00:That was fantastic. I think, what's your thought about the cast that we have? You kind of, Laura Dern, Sam Neill, and Jeff Goldblum
SPEAKER_01:I mean I guess I'll just point out I did see the movie I think like most people before I read the book so yes in a way I was never comparing characters like that when I watched the movie and I still don't honestly like I still think of them as the characters so I feel like the cast that he chose and I think he did this intentionally you know was very believable I guess especially back then they weren't really established actors Laura Dern kind of was and Jeff Goldblum kind of was like from the fly and everything but they were never like huge movies back then I just I think it was kind of they felt very natural you didn't feel like they were trying to just use their star power glow and they all just felt so quirky in that special 90s way that felt very but like naturally quirky though not like for quirkiness sake like they really felt like real people
SPEAKER_00:and i think they had such a difficult and unique job to do because this had never been attempted before the reacting to things that weren't there so the dinosaurs being cgi so they really had to sell
SPEAKER_01:it no it definitely does and i think especially with the scientific stuff it was so smart of david kept um and i guess spielberg to come up with mr dna to explain the science and the informational video like it just made perfect sense because that was definitely not a thing until uh kept came in and did that i think in the previous scripts they they sometimes had a video but it would just be like hammond talking or ed regis talking kind of thing it was just more like a typical informational video but to actually make it be a cartoon you know in a way it's like intentionally dumbing down the science so everyone could understand in a movie you have to you know what I mean especially for
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:you know that kind of science it's very complicated science it's
SPEAKER_00:just amazing that that was yeah just that little scene can do can do all of that heavy lifting
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah yeah so much heavy lifting i should note too in kep's original draft for whatever reason he actually mentions mr dna having a jamaican accent
SPEAKER_00:right okay
SPEAKER_01:instead of a southern accent that would have been interesting it would have been an interesting difference yeah um yeah the actors reacting to nothing to be fair though they at least did have animatronics like plenty of animatronics to react to i'm sure they probably got shown concept art as well because there was plenty of that to go around but yeah they definitely kind of paved the way for that, I think.
SPEAKER_00:And on those animatronics, you know, Stan Winston, the man was a genius to give everything that he created life, particularly, I think, in the T-Rex attack sequence on the main road and the raptors in the kitchen.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. And totally, you totally buy it. Like, to this day, I watch that movie and the animatronics especially, but even the CGI in many scenes really just, I still don't know how they really pulled it off, especially because they did movies, you know, before and since that movie where I don't think it was pulled off as well for whatever
SPEAKER_00:reason. You watch it now and you can't believe that that is 30-year-old technology. The first iteration of it and it still looks better than some of the stuff. I feel like I sound really old now. I do understand that. It feels more real.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I think part of it is honestly they spent so much time perfecting it for... just this movie because they were trying to prove something. I think that made the difference because ever since then, They weren't trying to prove it anymore. They already proved they could do it. So they just wanted to do whatever they wanted with it after that. And it didn't mean actually refining it to the point where you can't tell the difference, which in many cases you couldn't tell the difference in the first movie. I think that
SPEAKER_00:might be part of it. And it's the two effects working in tandem, isn't it? The animatronics and the CGI. They're there to complement the story rather than being... the focus. The T-Rex on the main road scene is just, I just, watching it today, you know, the music disappears and you feel like you're being, like the whole crew are just leaving you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, I mean, it's basically the perfect sequence. Like, I think people who even study films say it's like one of the best sequences ever filmed for any movie, which is funny because there's actually some you know, minor inconsistencies if you're looking out for them, but it, but it's kind of like what I was saying earlier about like, you know, coming from the top of the frame, like it doesn't matter when you're so invested in what is happening and like you're, you're in the car with them. And that's just a terrifying thing to actually feel, to feel that, uh, honestly like if it was done today from a different filmmaker they probably would have had like a ton of wide shots and everything to really show the creature more than anything else and
SPEAKER_00:yeah you only get one don't you when it first steps out yeah that's the only kind of big wide shot and also the what i also watching it the impact tremors and the glass shaking a lot and you know that it's coming and it's like the music endures and you feels like just the ominous sense of something massive coming and i'm so surprised that in the Jurassic World films it wasn't reused
SPEAKER_01:no I don't think once even I'm trying to remember if it ever got used yeah it never was and even Jurassic Park 3 used it in the opening titles
SPEAKER_00:yeah I was just I was thinking how amazing would it have been if they'd introduced the Giganotosaurus with that. Like you had the rippling and the impact tremors. And then when it actually turned up, it wasn't the T-Rex. It was something much bigger, much badder. And that would have, yeah, I'd like to see that kind of introduction to that character. There was issues with the T-Rex during that scene. Of course, it got very wet because it was driving rain. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It
SPEAKER_00:started to shake after about 10 minutes as they had to dry it down with a towel. Have you ever seen this live with the kind of orchestra?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I have. Actually, I think at least three times. And one of them was at the famous Hollywood Bowl, which I also saw John Williams perform a couple of times. Yeah, it was amazing to see him perform. It is amazing. I recommend anyone in any format to watch the live performance. Jurassic Park.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I saw it at the Royal Abbott Hall for the 20, 20, 20th, 25th,
SPEAKER_01:maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. I think it was 25th. Yeah. Yeah. And that was just, yeah, just at that moment when the main road happens. And now I think of it every time I watch it. It's like the conductor putting down his baton.
SPEAKER_01:And I love how, because they do an intermission for the live version and for the intermission, they do a brief bit from The Lost World, which is great.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I'd never thought of that being the midway, like with Nedry and Samuel Jackson's line of, we can't get Jurassic Park back online without Dennis Nedry. And you're like, that is the perfect midpoint for this film. Of course, that is the intermission point of this story.
SPEAKER_01:It's like a cliffhanger in a way. It's like, oh, no. Like, what are we going to do? Like, and he's off on his own right now and doing bad stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I definitely think that talking about Nedry in that whole moment, it feels like a horror film.
SPEAKER_01:No, I agree. I mean, my six-year-old self would agree because remember that was the scene that I lost it. I was like, oh God. I mean, yeah, the T-Rex scene was terrifying, but I guess because you kind of expected it. I wasn't as scared as a kid, but with the spitter again, I didn't see it coming really. So it was like a horror film. moment like it's like a legit horror moment kind of like when the raptor attacks Ellie from behind in the shed like that's like a legit horror moment there too that's like a horror movie trope yeah honestly Jurassic Park to me it's a multi-genre story which I seem to gravitate toward those as like my favorite kind of stories where you can't really pinpoint exactly where it goes like it's kind of a bunch of things rolled into one so I mean I think Jurassic Park is like a adventure sci-fi horror story like that's the the three main groups i would put it together with i think it's all the better for it especially when the jurassic world films i feel like they lost the horror unfortunately
SPEAKER_00:yeah nedry's death in the book is really gory and it just made me think that spielberg's so good at taking that horror and making it still terrifying but appropriate to everybody it feels believable the pain that nedry goes through We've all got something at some point in our eye. And the fact that it is that extreme close-up on him rubbing at his eyes, it's just...
SPEAKER_01:Relatable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, relatable. Relatable horror. It doesn't need the gory detail that the book gives you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. And actually, I came across a Michael Crichton quote from I think it was some magazine like Starlog or something. And he actually mentioned... in this article that he was glad that the movie was not as gory as his book because he also believes that with books you can be extra gory for effect and it's okay because it's just the person imagining it and in fact you kind of have to go a little further in books to really make your point but he says for the movie medium you don't have to do that to sell the same point you know anyone who's criticized like oh I wish I Jurassic Park was more like the book, you know, in the movie form, you know, like James Cameron's aliens kind of thing which is funny because he almost got to do jurassic park at one point but even the original author agrees like you know it didn't need to be that gory for it to be effective and i i definitely agree books and movies are different mediums you don't have to be slavish
SPEAKER_00:it's uh yeah it's it's interesting to think of the other people that might have got jurassic i mean it always felt like it was because spielberg and crichton went back years i think they first met when spielberg was asked to take crichton around the sets or something i for Andromeda Strain when that was being made in the early 70s. I think Tim Burton was put forward. Richard Donner, I think from Superman, I suppose, because they, you know, specialist effect heavy film could have dealt with it.
SPEAKER_01:And the Goonies, which was an Amblin.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, Amblin. Yeah, it feels it feels right that this is Spielberg.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he and he clearly already had an interest in dinosaurs because he produced The Land Before Time, the Don Bluth animated film, which is also really good. Sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bambi for dinosaurs. Yeah, it's no, I do think Spielberg was the right person for because if they had done something more slavish to the book, you know, like a James Cameron aliens, gory action style movie, I don't think it would have become such a cultural icon that it is now because Spielberg made it more accessible to I mean, I wouldn't say everyone because kids at my age were not supposed to see it. But, you know, it was kind of possible because it wasn't our at least. So, you know, parents were more like, oh, OK, I guess so, you know, kind of thing, even though probably still shouldn't have. But
SPEAKER_00:kids love it. Kids love that. That kind of be scared. Yeah, they love to be scared. But like yourself, you understand that afterwards, like a like a theme park ride, that it's safe. Oh, nothing bad happened. And I enjoyed those bits and you kind of watch it again. And I think Spielberg understands that perfectly. Because Crichton in the book, his way of writing kids is like Lex and Tim. Lex in particular is bloody annoying. Spielberg always has that kid's eye view you know he knows he seems to be able to remember what it was like being a child and can put that on screen so effortlessly
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah and i think at that point you know spielberg already knew that kids were infatuated with with dinosaurs there was like a big dinosaur resurgence of interest in the 80s especially like the late 80s for whatever reason they were like a big hot topic and so he knew that if he made a dinosaur movie that kids couldn't see that they would be missing out on on an audience but also you know for merchandising actually because you know they do think about those things and you know jurassic park certainly had quite the merchandise um i remember it was everywhere even like the mcdonald's commercials and everything like it was one of the biggest marketing campaigns i think for any movie maybe ever. I don't know. Like it's, it's definitely, it was everywhere more than maybe star Wars is the only one who ever had a bigger marketing campaign. It was, it was, it was the right call for sure. And I think at this point Spielberg was already a parent, if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, I think he just had kids at that time. Cause I know when he did hook, I think that's what attracted him to do that movie. Cause it was about like parenthood. Like, you know, that was, um, peter's happy thought at the end of hook was that he was a father basically um so i i think that really spoke to spielberg and you know then he went on to do jurassic park so i think he had he probably got even better at directing kids than when he started to be honest
SPEAKER_00:we've talked a few times about continuity issues maybe with jurassic park and i get you know when i talk to people and people you know that aren't quite as obsessed as me about the film they're like there's quite a few you know inconsistencies with the with the film but there's one that i think think can be attributed to Kubrick there's a door that opens when Grant first meets Hammond in the trailer at the dig site and he opens the door one way and then the shot changes and you see he's opened the door another way and I think it might be a continuity error a legitimate one but there's a moment in The Shining this happens when he goes in the freezer the walk-in freezer and Kubrick didn't make mistake Everything that is in this film is in there for a reason. And Spielberg was such a big Kubrick fan and obviously a friend of him. And I was thinking of the story moment of that is... That's when the story changes and it kind of, we leave reality. We go into Hammond's fantasy world. And so that Grant leaving his dig site with the dinosaurs in their state that he's just left them. And when he passes through that door, his life will change. And that is, I don't know. I like that a lot. I'm completely wrong.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean, I actually never thought of it that way, but I like that a lot. So we're just going to say it is true. We're just going to say it is true because no one's going to tell us otherwise, probably. No, no, no. It's funny you mentioned continuity in that scene though, because the one continuity error perhaps that I've always noticed is the handkerchief that Hammond has when he's kind of wiping the wine bottle. It goes from like white to pink somehow. Unless there's like a sleight of hand and he's grabbing a different one. It's really kind
SPEAKER_00:of funny when you notice. Yeah, I've noticed that as well. And I wonder whether that speaks to the fact that Spielberg was directing Richard Attenborough, a titan. And how do you stop somebody who is giving you a great performance to say, oh, you're using a big pink towel now. I mean, it is ridiculous because it is, you know, he's using a bath towel essentially to wipe those glasses. Yeah. I think it might be Spielberg just going, I'm just in awe of watching this man and I can't believe he's agreed to do my film.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that's the kind of the editorial choices, um, like him and editor Michael Kahn seem to make in a lot of his movies, like they don't always go for the technically perfect take. They go for just the best take in terms of performance or just in visual appeal or, you know, what have you. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was a performance choice for that because, you know, like Spielberg said with the whole, you know, Rex coming in, it's like, you know, you're not going to, care about the technicalities when you're in the moment so it's like the focus of the scene is what Hammond is talking about you know to them and his kind of quirkiness not you know the tallies holding like people don't really notice those things normally unless they're on rewatch like us and look for it that's why I don't like cinema sins it just ruins it it's not a fun way to watch a movie but The rumor, though, is that George Lucas actually kind of was part of the editor's room during that time and made certain choices, including recutting the Ellie in the shed scene. And that's why. Yeah. And that's why John Williams original music for that. I think it was called Hungry Raptor was the track title. It got mostly dropped. except for like the second half of it because the scene got recut by Lucas. So they just kind of tracked in music from earlier or later in the score. That's one of the rumors anyway. I forget where.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've heard that too. And I've heard the fact that he was definitely present for the editing quite heavily because Spielberg was away, I think for the CGI. And that's what gave him the confidence to do that. episode one. So
SPEAKER_01:we can blame Spielberg for the prequels then. Do
SPEAKER_00:you think that's the lasting legacy of, and not the prequels in particular, but what do you think the lasting legacy of Jurassic Park is?
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, I mean it's kind of sad in a way because you would think the legacy would be the best way to integrate special effects into a story and to use it well. But then half of the sequels didn't abide by its own lesson from its own franchise, in my opinion. Even comparing Jurassic World to Jurassic Park, you can't even really do it because they don't have the same intent. Jurassic World the whole time is setting up reverence for Jurassic Park in its own ways, whether it's successful or not is up to the viewer. But Jurassic Park was just trying to prove itself, which I think... is a lot. more important i think and to just show the world like this is this is what a movie can be you know and i think that's what i get from it like this is how good movies can be when trying to tell an incredible story
SPEAKER_00:yeah it's it's obviously i'm gonna say it's fantastic but i think it you know it's a classic for a reason
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah especially the first movie in particular because they fly off into the sunset it's not trying to set anything up it's it's it's there to tell you a complete story in the best way that it possibly can and And... I think there's a lost art to that these days with those kind of adventure movies, you know, you know, I'm also just speaking of like, high budget movies, because obviously, there's still plenty of great movies being made, you know, it's a lost art of how blockbusters used to be made, hoping, praying that rebirth absorbs more of that. They're kind of making claims that it will, like I said before, it remains to be seen. I Yeah, again, I'm praying for that to be the case. And I mean, they can leave breadcrumbs if they want, but it's like, don't focus on the breadcrumbs, you know, it's just. focus on this story if i was working there i i would just have like a really small very tiny movie basically trespasser the movie would be great you know like castaway meets dinosaurs
SPEAKER_00:and speaking of trespasser that leads me quite nicely to talk to and ask you about jurassic time
SPEAKER_01:oh man i mean the the history of jurassic time essentially it started quite a few years ago i think back all the way to like 2007 where i you know played the computer game trust Passer, which those who don't know, that was a 1997 computer game, kind of an extension of the Lost World, you know, the second sequel of Jurassic Park. And, you know, kind of like how I mentioned this little fake pitch I just made where it's like a woman is stranded on the island alone with dinosaurs and has to get off. But part of that game that was so great was Richard Attenborough reprised his role as John Hammond and read basically his memoir of John Hammond. And you hear little bits of it throughout the game. And... You know, as the years went on, less people play the game, less people could even play the game properly without, you know, doing mods and stuff like that. To this day, you still have to kind of like set things up properly before you can play it. But I thought his performance as Hammond kind of was even better than what was in the movies, in my opinion. Like it just really, the story he tells and the way he tells it is just kind of emotional the whole time. I really wanted... to kind of capture his performance and kind of share it with people beyond the game, which was impossible, you know, until I decided to extract all of his audio from the game. And in the game, everything is kind of placed randomly throughout locations, you just hear a random bit, there was no real storytelling narrative. I just kind of arranged it in a way that I thought was the best storytelling kind of perspective, you know, and then I set it to music from the game composed by Bill Brown, who was amazing game composer. He still composes to this day, but mostly just for like smaller films. Yeah. And then I added, eventually I added sound effects from the game as well to kind of just make it more interesting for people, like an actual audio drama. That kind of became the thing I was best known for for a while was this audio drama version of Hammond's Memoirs from Jurassic Park. And I called it Jurassic Time, which that title came from the strategy guide of Trespasser, actually, because
SPEAKER_00:that's what they call his memoir. I didn't actually know where it came from. That's really interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's the only time I've seen it described as Jurassic Jurassic Time was in that strategy guide. So I was like, well, I'll just call that you know, Jurassic time then, because that's what the strategy guy says his like memoir was called or whatever. So, so from there, during the pandemic, let's just say I had a lot more time on my hands to scope people out, try to interview people who were part of the Jurassic Park films. Essentially, I'll just go down the line of the biggest names like Rick Carter, production designer, Rick Carter, you know, john bell, the art director, David Lowery, storyboard artist, john Gurchy, he was a concept artist, Caroline Quinn. She was a art department coordinator, even Dino Don Lessam. I even... Got to talk to Leo Bierenberg, the composer of Camp Cretaceous and Chaos Theory. When season one came out of Camp Cretaceous, I was able to get an interview with him. I think the first one really with him that anyone had done. One of the other big names of shame is Blackley. He created Trespasser and also created a little thing called the Xbox. So when I did Rick Carter's Jurassic Park, the illustrated audio drama from his script, someone was able to help me get in contact with him. And they warned me, though, he's either going to really like it or really hate it. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's terrifying. But fortunately, he loved it. And it led to me being involved in some art exhibits of his because he lives in L.A. And I live about three hours from L.A. So I was able to get there for some of these events. And funnily enough, I made like a Blu-ray of of the rick carter program and i gave it to rick and someone there saw me do this and he recognized the jurassic time logo on the back
SPEAKER_00:and
SPEAKER_01:he's like i know who you are and he was wearing um a mask because it was like covid was still going on during that time so i didn't see his face initially like who is this and then i found out it was seamus blackley and so that's how I met Seamus Blackley and then he wanted me to interview him about not only Trespasser but the Jurassic World game that he was involved in creating before there was a movie which that's a crazy story which
SPEAKER_00:we all got very excited about when we saw the trailer I remember that
SPEAKER_01:yeah that little pitch trailer with the pterosaur like flying off with the surfer and everything like we were all so confused for years like what that was like it was a part of the movie but no it was part of a game which is kind of weird in a way like that's what it was I spoke to all these people and it's just it's just amazing that they gave you know just a fan that kind of time to talk to them you know and about these stories and I feel like some of them especially in the art department they don't always get their spotlight and I feel like They should, because when you see the illustrations of like the storyboards of the concept art and how it's so often closely resembles in the final product of the movie, part of the movie's vision definitely comes from these people. Like the movies are a collaborative effort. They're not just one person. I think too often just one person does get credit, which, you know, as amazing as Spielberg is, it isn't all him. Most of the time when people would talk about Jurassic Park and interviews and even special documentaries and videos, they would only talk about the special effects, which to me, I was getting bored to death by it. I mean, it's like, I get it. It was an amazing special effects movie, but there was so much more. interesting details that went into it including like the script writing process that we talked about and what went into the artwork and everything the different concepts that they came up with got rid of then brought back like there's this a Interesting history, especially for Jurassic Park, because it had a very long pre-production. You know, they started pre-production in 1990, basically, when those scripts were being written. And, you know, they didn't start filming until 1992. So, you know, there's that much time, years of pre-production. That's not really normal, especially these days. Like Jurassic World Rebirth didn't get that. You know, speaking of Jurassic Park scripts from earlier, I... have to mention that I was also a consultant on Jurassic Park, the official script book that Inside Editions did back in late 2023. And that alone was quite an experience. We spent months working on like the interior of the book, I donated a bunch of images for them to use that were part of the concept art from the original Jurassic Park, a lot of rare images that were not in the previous Jurassic Park ultimate visual history book. So it's definitely one of the more proud things I've done. And I definitely think most Jurassic Park fans would love it. I mean, it came from a fan, you know, working hard at it. So, you know, I have to thank James Matram, the writer of that book for getting me involved and for, you know, kind of giving my own personal touch to the whole thing. But yeah, I think it turned out pretty well. Apart from the book cover, a lot of people criticized the book cover and I don't blame them. That was like the one thing I had zero involvement in. So I'm really proud with how it turned out. So I do hope people enjoy it if they check it out. But anyway, back to back to Jurassic Time. So yeah, all those interviews, you know, kind of got me more more notice and especially the Rick Carter's Jurassic Park program because I got noticed by Rick Carter. So that was like to me, that was like the ultimate confirmation that, you know, I was doing something that people appreciated, which is, you know, I wanted something that had value. you know, either a quality to it or something that people just had interest in, that people wanted to know about these stories.
SPEAKER_00:And you're now telling... a story with your first book, Invertiverse. Please tell me a little bit more about it. I've read the first, you sent me the first few chapters and I love it. I'm hooked. I'm in. I'm ready. So yeah, can you give me a little synopsis and kind of tell me where the idea came from?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But yeah, the full synopsis, and I'm just going to read it. Dangerous creatures, peculiar disappearances, mysterious urban ruins. It was easy for David Andrews to be entranced by Juniper Valley's legends. But when his up David's entire life becomes derailed. Years later, an alarming incident leads him and an estranged friend into the depths of their town's chilling history. A startling discovery lies in wait that will force them on a frantic journey. across the multiverse. Alternate worlds with vicious monsters and treacherous landscapes won't be their only challenges. They will have to overcome their own haunted past if they ever wish to return home. And there is also a chance that David can finally confess his true feelings to the same person he had lost. And that last bit right there where it's like, oh, I hope that brings them in. Yeah, it does. What does that mean? But I'm glad you're enjoying it so far. And I'll just slightly give away because you did read the prologue, especially the inciting incident, which or a inciting incident. I wouldn't call it the inciting incident of my story, but it is a inciting incident that does become referenced and is important later on. But it's very much a Stephen King-inspired opening, you know, Children in Peril. So it's like Spielberg and Stephen King kind of opening chapter, Child in Peril. Because I feel like if a child is in peril, that means anyone is game. But as for the inspiration for this story... It had been in my head for many, many years. I remember I did a really weird version of the story in high school that was centered around like the Bermuda Triangle, where the Bermuda Triangle was like a portal to another world, basically. And they get sucked into like a whirlpool, essentially. There's definitely concepts in here that are 20 years old, which is very, really nuts. But no, I've been working on this book specifically for about a decade, which is also kind of crazy because I was trying to juggle like real life work and stuff like that as I'm trying to write it. And it just wasn't clicking properly until, again, when the pandemic happened and I suddenly had more time to devote just to the book. And that's where I think it really found its footing, finally. At the same time, and I don't recommend this, but I was actually having illustrations created while I was writing the book. Even before I had a first draft done, I had outlines done. But there was no actual draft and I was already getting artwork made for it from various people. But another unique thing I did, because I've always loved orchestral film scores, and I feel like I've always been a struggling composer in my head. I tried to learn music when I went to college briefly, and it was like an introduction to music class. But on the first day, they already assumed you knew how to write notations. I'm like, yeah, I don't know how to do that. So I had to drop it. It was really upsetting because I really wanted to learn. So, you know, I always had themes in my head ever since high school again. I always had music themes in my head. I would hum as I walked home from school and everything. But then when I was coming up with the story, I just had this weird idea. Like, what if the book had its own soundtrack? And I found various people who could play music by ear. So I would hum out every track, and they would replicate it based on my humming. And it's kind of a thematic score, you know, like different characters with different themes and different ideas, and they kind of play off each other at times. So yeah, I just really wanted the story to be almost... As much as a movie without actually seeing one. And that's why I wanted all this concept art for it. And the art is in the book, except for the e-book versions. I actually tried putting artwork for the e-book digital versions. But the thing with e-books is they're formatted in a way where if certain devices, things won't look right. And I tested it out and it just looked really bad. So I was like, you know what? I would rather just not have art in the e-book version because it just... ruin it. So there's a lot of like fake logos in the story. But and actually, for Jurassic Park fans, john bell actually did a piece of artwork for inverter verse. There's a vehicle Yeah, because john bell for Those who don't know or remember, he was the art director at Jurassic Park and he did various concept art illustrations, including for the vehicle designs. Like he designed the look of the Ford Explorer and the Jeeps for the Lost World as well. He did all those vehicle designs. So he's a car aficionado. So it makes sense. And. For Invertiverse, I asked him to design a fictional vehicle for me called the Rocket Lodge, which is basically a souped up mobile home. And I wanted it to be very futuristic looking and just like really impressive and have like a vibrant design. It's great. He did such a great job. work designing it. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_00:You mentioned about Stephen King and Steven Spielberg, and it has that element to it very much. I think you've really captured a sense of place. You know, it's a landscape that I don't know at all. And the shadows and the creature and all of it was just really great. And again, what I talked about earlier about kind of writing kids as well, it's really difficult to get their point of view. And I think you did that. You've done that really well.
SPEAKER_01:No, thank you. I mean, that's That's really good to know. Because I mean, you writing for kids, and I think writing for females, I was worried. Because later on the story, there is a female POV or perspective. And I'm a male and I'm like, I don't want to write for a woman in a way that doesn't feel genuine. You know what I mean? And it's hard for me to do that. You know, it's like, I don't know. Thankfully, the few people that have read the whole story, the female character, they actually... like the best like it's their favorite character usually by the end of the story especially so I'm like oh thank god you know it's like more relieved than happy in a way that I seemingly made it work and I loved writing for her so I think maybe that's what showed because I gave her a you know, a fun personality, I guess you could say, but she gets the best dialogue. You know, I try, I always get for like the best dialogue every time. Yeah. I'd like influences for writing. Definitely Stephen King, but also obviously Michael Crichton. I'm sure you can feel the Crichton. Yeah. you know, inspirations oozing already in the text. And but I will say there are a lot of dinosaur references later on, or just a few Jurassic references still to come. And I'll just spoil this because you do see artwork when I begin advertising this story. There's a thing that I call pygmy pets, which are the small versions of pets for people to have of bigger animals. For example, people have like dog sized versions of giraffes, rhinos, bears, and you know, they never grow past a certain size. Which was definitely inspired by an idea from Crichton's book that somehow never got used in any of the movies. I don't think it's going to be in Rebirth either. So I'm like, oh, how did they not tap into this? You know, in the story, they do go in and out of different universes. I wanted it to be this really kind of fun, frantic adventure while still... having an emotional core that I think people could relate to. And that definitely comes in the form of the protagonist, David Andrews. It's supposed to be like an emotional journey for the characters and they go through growth. Cause the thing is a lot of multiverse stories with like marble right now. And I even tried to make this be a point in like the product page for selling the book, you know, where it's like, this isn't, like a comic book superhero movie. These are ordinary people with relatable stuff going on in their lives that are thrown into this, you know, fish out of water style adventure. Like they're not scientists. They're just like us, basically, you know, maybe some nerdier than others, but that's about it.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, no, I think from what I've read so far, you've got some amazing set up to a story and some really great characters as well. And characters, you know, are the be all and end all of all stories. So yeah. When is it released?
SPEAKER_01:It is coming out June 3rd. which is, you know, just in time for Jurassic June, right? There's some dinosaur elements in the story. So if it's if it's, I'll probably by the time this episode comes out, I'll probably already be promoting it for pre orders. So you might be able to pre order it now, which you could do so at Derek Davis media.com. There'll be various links for you to go to, because they'll be available at most places books are sold, including Amazon. And also it could be ordered through local bookstores and stuff like that. So there's definitely a lot of ways you can get, uh, multiple versions of this book. It'll be available in hardcover and also paperback. And of course the ebook I mentioned, but again, the ebook does not have pictures. So,
SPEAKER_00:um, so how else can people find you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And the easiest way is, uh, Derek Davis media.com. And there are, um, There's ways to contact me. There's also like a Facebook page, Instagram, Twitter threads and Blue Sky as well. Like they're all they're all on there. So you can reach me in those ways. Also, you can reach me through Jurassic Time, the JurassicTime.TrustCom.org. There's various social media platforms there as well. And also I. I sometimes do articles for a little website called Jurassic Outpost. And I'm sometimes on their podcast as well, so you can find me there. So I'm kind of all over the place right now. So if I feel like mentally I'm all over the place, that's probably why. I'm
SPEAKER_00:just going to say thank you so much for joining me today. It has been an absolute pleasure of mine. As being a fan of everything that you've done with Jurassic Time, I don't know how many times I've actually listened to John Hammond memoirs it has aided me going to sleep many times and lulled me on train journeys it is a joy to listen to and the rick carter jurassic park audio drama is amazing as well i know
SPEAKER_01:yeah no thank you thank you for having me this was this was great i hope you know you hope you get a nice big following from people listening because i think you're i think you're really great at hosting these and i'm not just saying it's like it's it's hard to do it is hard to you know really find a way to you know capture a person you know in in a conversation like this and i think you did a great job so so thank you for having me for sure thank
SPEAKER_00:you to derrick again for that conversation and i really hope you enjoyed everything that we talked about in the show notes for this episode you'll find all of Derek's links. So please go and check out his website and Invertiverse, which actually since our conversation, I have finished and I'm a huge fan. I really enjoyed it. It perfectly blends the Amblin sensibilities with Stephen King. There's even, I think, connections to films like Labyrinth and Neverending Story. So yeah, please go and check out all of that. And also, I'd just like to say thank you very much to everybody who's rated this podcast so far. After one episode, that is amazing. Thank you very much. I've got so much more planned for you in the future. So please remember to subscribe to this podcast and follow me on Instagram at roadtorebirthpod. Next week, I'm looking at The Lost World, the novel by Michael Crichton, and I've got two special guests. So I've got my continuation of my conversation with James Lovegrove, and also I've got author Guy Adams, and we're talking about his take on Michael Crichton as an author. But for now, I'll just say thank you very much for listening, and goodbye.
