The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997) with Caleb Burnett (Jurassic Outpost)

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1993 was a huge year for Steven Speilberg. He released 'Jurassic Park' and 'Schindler's List' to great critical and commercial success. He took a few years off but he couldn't stop thinking about returning to the world of the dinosaurs  

This week I sit down with composer Caleb Burnett and discuss our memories of seeing the film for the first time, the playstation video game and of course John Williams's amazing score. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is just a warning to say that this episode features spoilers, mild language, and lots of talk about dinosaurs. And if that's not for you, then drop what you're doing and leave now.

Intro Story

SPEAKER_00 0:13

So my aunt, while I'm watching Jurassic Park for the first time, is telling me this story about how when she saw Jurassic Park in a theater, during the T-Rex breakout scene, someone behind her dropped some chain loose change or something and was reaching around underneath the seats trying to find it and grabbed her ankle. And I I really remember, like, while watching Jurassic Park, her saying, like, the T-Rex breakout scene was about to happen, and her saying, like, oh, here comes the scary stuff, here it comes. She she she didn't lean and like grab your leg to kind of Oh no. Thank thank goodness, thank goodness, no.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roman Squire. Each week in the lead up to Jurassic World Rebirth, I am sitting down with a guest to discuss an entry aspect of the Jurassic franchise. And today I'm talking about Steven Spielberg's sequel, The Lost World, Jurassic Park. By 1997, Steven Spielberg had spent the best part of 30 years directing back-to-back classics. In 1993, he had released Jurassic Park, which ushered in the digital effect revolution that happened in cinema, and also released the deeply personal Schindler's List. He had been recognized at the Academy Awards and won a whole host of Oscars for both films. After that, he did something surprising. He took time off directing. Instead, he went and set up a new production company called DreamWorks. But there was something he couldn't get off his mind, and that was returning to the world of the dinosaurs. As I talked about last week, author Michael Crichton was reluctant to write a sequel to Jurassic Park. However, fans, Spielberg, and Jurassic Park screenwriter, David Kepp, managed to persuade him. They all worked on ideas together and decided that Ian Malcolm would return and it would be set on a brand new island filled with dinosaurs, Isla Sauna, and would be called The Lost World. Now for Grichton, his inspiration would come from Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World. And if you want to hear more about that, please listen to last week's episode. But for Spielberg, his love for Howard Hawks would be his reference point. Watching Hawks' 1962 African adventure film, Hatari, starring John Wayne as a great white hunter capturing animals for zoos and circuses, the references are writ large. The Lost World reimagines that film, but instead of wildebeests and rhinos, it's dinosaurs. And actually, those scenes of them racing after giraffes are a th really thrilling and incredibly well filmed, if a little difficult to watch 60 years later. In The Lost World, Spielberg takes John Wayne's Sean Mercer, but turns him into an anti-hero. In the form of Roland Tembo, played by Pete Pothelswaite. Now production started in September 1996 and like most Steven Spielberg films, wrapped ahead of schedule in December the same year. To help me unpack a bit more about the film and its place within the series, I chatted with composer and musician Kayla Burnett and started by asking him how he became a Jurassic fan.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

My first memory of seeing Jurassic Park was on, you know, one of those big old TVs with the VCRs in the front of it. I remember being with my aunt and uh she told like during my I remember during my first time seeing Jurassic Park, um, my aunt was telling me about stories of when she saw it in the theater. Because I'm too young to have seen it in the theater, unfortunately. Um, but uh so my aunt, while I'm watching Jurassic Park for the first time, is telling me this story about how when she saw Jurassic Park in a theater, um, during the T-Rex breakout scene, someone behind her dropped some chain loose change or something, um, and was reaching around underneath the seats trying to find it and grabbed her ankle during the T-Rex breakout scene. Um, and so uh, and I I really remember like while watching Jurassic Park as a young kid at this time, like her saying like the T-Rex breakout scene was about to happen, and her saying, like, oh, here comes the scary stuff, here it comes. Um, and so I've just loved Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

She she she didn't lean and like grab your left. Oh no. Simpson.

Are you excited for Rebirth?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Thank thank goodness, thank goodness. No. Uh, but like I I fell in love with it. Um I remember immediately afterwards going to a computer and typing going to Google and typing in Jurassic Park sequels, like to see if there were any that existed, because at the time I just didn't know. And uh, you know, at the time two of them popped up. Um, because that's how young I am, I guess. But uh yeah, so and I've just been a fan since then. Um, honestly, and when the Jurassic World trilogy came out and just kind of like started things back up again and you know got everybody back into it. And definitely, you know, I'm one of those people got me back into it after like sort of being a casual fan for a little while because there was nothing happening. Um the wilderness years, yeah. Yeah, and uh and now here we are. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Are you excited for rebirth?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, I I really am. Um nice. And the biggest point of that for me is David Kepp. Um, it's kind of been that since the beginning. I I have a big admiration for David Kepp. Um, I uh I love I love his writing. I I know some people are gonna say, you know, he hasn't everything he's written hasn't been perfect, but um I I think he's an excellent writer, and um I think the screenplays and some of the dialogue and the scenes and moments in those first two Jurassic films are just phenomenal, to be quite honest. And so him coming back to Jurassic is just like how lucky are we, how fortunate are we um after after all this.

The Lost World Synopsis

SPEAKER_03 6:39

It's incredible that he is. This is the reason why he's coming back. A seventh film in a franchise to get yeah to get him to come back in. I think yeah, that is definitely for me a it's it's an interesting it's an interesting move. Yeah, so so today we're gonna try and tackle Steven Spielberg's sequel to Jurassic Park, The Lost World, which was released in 1997. And I was wondering whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for it.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yes, I can. Four years after the disaster at Jurassic Park, John Hammond has lost control of Engine because some of the board has come in and taken over after an incident on site B. A British family on a yacht cruise. John Hammond recruits uh experts in many fields, uh, including Sarah Harding and Ian Malcolm, um, who is returning from that first Jurassic story to uh head to site B and complete a uh extensive photo record of these dinosaurs and animals to gain public opinion back for Injun so that uh, you know, the people who have taken Injun from John Hammond don't stripline this island and uh try to start another theme park and do things that these animals don't deserve. So um, and that, you know, the two so the team that John Hammond recruits heads to Site B, East La Sorna, and an Injun-led team heads to Site B, East LaZorna, but they don't have knowledge of each other. When they get to Site B, chaos ensues, uh, because of their different different missions, and uh they end up being stuck there together and have to find a way to get off. And in the end, Injun manages to get a dinosaur back to the mainland, uh, against many folks' wishes, and uh chaos ensues there in San Diego, and Ian Malcolm and Sarah Harding have to play a part in sort of uh wrangling that dinosaur back into containment and getting it back to site B. And that's kind of where The Lost World leaves us is dinosaurs are back on site B. So I hope that's sufficient.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Amazing. Thank you very much for that. Yeah, no, that's really good. After you'd watch Jurassic Park, desperate to watch more. Do you have any memories of watching The Lost World for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Oh, yeah, for sure. Um so The Lost World was actually my favorite Jurassic movie for a long time. Um, like more than the original, more than the others. Um, just because as a kid, it was like there's a bunch more action, there's more dinosaurs, there's two T-Rexes instead of one. Um, and so like, you know, and I there's an interview with Spielberg somewhere on special features or something where he talks about like wanting there to be more carnage and action in the Lost World. And I remember seeing that as a kid on the special features and being like, yeah, like um thinking that was awesome. So um I don't have a I don't know that I have a memory of like specifically watching The Lost World for the first time, but like it definitely like took over my fandom as a kid and as a teenager.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

So yeah. Yeah, I saw it opening night. So there was they used I don't know whether they still do this, so it was um like special previews like a couple of nights before, and at my local cinema, I went oh I like I was nine and I begged my mum and dad to take me, and they took me, and I remember coming out and pretending to be a T-Rex, you know, smashing my way through the town. And thinking about that today, I was like, that is absolutely what Spielberg wanted from the T-Rex moment in San Diego is to kind of push all those kids out and you know, let them stomp around. Um and also another memory from Lost World is the PlayStation game.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

That original PlayStation have have have you ever played that?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I have, yeah. I'm I'm not a huge gamer, admittedly, but like Jurassic, I'm I am a big Jurassic gamer, let's say. So like all the Jurassic games I will at least like give a try. And those late 90s, early 2000s, like Lost World games are so fun. They're great.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

It's one of the most frustrating games I think I've ever played. Like the gameplay of it is just awful. And it's got but it's got a good score, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

It's um Michael Jacquino. Definitely what I was gonna say is the music for those games is uh pretty iconic. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Um there was a you you could enter in like cheat codes. And I remember I was ill off school once, and me, my mum and dad just just needed to get past the comps of Gnathus. I think my mum said, I cannot listen to that music again. We've got to get to another got to get to another level.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

That's great. That's great. The music is the motivator to beat the level. Yeah, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

She said if I end up on that bloody rock again at the start, I'm she's gonna scream. Um have have you read the book for the lost world?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yes. Um I the last time I read it was last spring, actually. So do you think it's a good adaptation, this? Uh I mean uh there's I don't know if I would say good or bad. I think, you know, there's a discussion to be had about like the adaptations of both Jurassic Park and The Lost World, because they're both I mean, they're both significantly different from their novel counterparts. Um but they both have a lot of similarities. But um The Lost World, I think, is just a great novel. Um it's such an escapism novel for me, like thinking about re- I was it's about a year ago that I wrote that I read it now, and like just such an escape, like off to South America and a mysterious island, and like so much mystery and intrigue in it. Um as far as the adaptation goes, I mean I uh the Lost World film is my favorite sequel in the franchise, and so I love what it is. Um, I also like it's so different from so many things in the book. Um there are so many characters that are present. Um and the Lost World book has given us like so much material to be put into like future films and other stuff and things like that. So I mean I think it's a good adaptation.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

I think but it's just my personal opinion that like Yeah, I I think it's sort of I was talking to uh James Lovegrove um last week, and he was saying it cherry picks the best moments from the novel that feel cinematic. Um yeah, and I think that's that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

I I agree. I think and I think good adaptations do that, because like Jurassic Park does that too.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

So I'm really interested in the fact that because Crichton was very involved in the pre-production of Jurassic Park, you know, writing a couple of drafts for that script, and I can't find any evidence that he was involved in the script writing for the Lost World adaptation at all.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, I mean it seems like David Kepp was, you know, taking what Crichton had written and just you know taking it straight to the screenplay. Um which is inter I mean this discussion is super interesting. Uh you know, and one reason is like David Kepp is back on Rebirth now. So like that makes this whole discussion interesting as far as like uh Spielberg and everyone coming up with sequel ideas and and things like that. It's makes me wonder uh what we have in store here.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

So yeah, I mean I'll get to Jurassic Part 3 and kind of Kepp's involvement maybe in that. But uh I wonder what those initial conversations that uh Kepp and Steve Steven Spielberg had for The Lost World. And as you say, the novel is so rich with future uh ideas for sequels and stuff, you can take tiny bits out, and actually you read the book, and when I was reading it this time, I was making little notes like, uh oh, this is in Jurassic Part 3, this is in Fallen Kingdom, and then I kept noticing bits that are in the uh rebirth trailer. I'm like, could this be could this be a hint at uh at rebirth?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Well, and Kep in one of these interviews over the last couple months said that he revisited the novels again, writing Rebirth. And so I'm excited. Yeah.

Isla Sorna

SPEAKER_03 15:03

So when they approached The Lost World, obviously Crichton came up with Isla Sauna, The New Island, and when going to film it, they decided to have a new look to it as well. What what's your thoughts on the on the difference of how Isla Nublar is depicted to Isla Sauna?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Um, I think it's uh I mean inviting is maybe a weird word because it's like a you know a mysterious, scary place. Um but I think like everything new about this movie has always just been really fresh to me as like a new island with different foliage, different environment, um, new characters, new score that describes this environment. Um and so it's you know, the score, not to go on a uh tangent, but like the score pairs with the island really well. Um it's just so mysterious and primal and spooky. And so it's I I love I've I've always loved Isla Sorna. I I love the new island.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

So it was shot in Eureka, which is in California, the redwood forests of San Francisco. Um yeah. Have you have you have have you ever visited there at all?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Uh I've been up through there. I haven't visited the specific locations. Um the game trail stuff was filmed in a place called Patrick's Point State Park or somewhere like that, I think. Um, and that I mean, the location that sticks out in my mind that I'd like to visit in Northern California sometime is that game trail shot. Um, but the redwoods are also just gorgeous. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

And obviously handily for Spielberg, it's a bit closer than Hawaii. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah. Well, and the the red redwood trees have have been around forever. They're ancient, like dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Yeah, I think uh Rick Carter said in one of those um documentaries that looking at the paleontology of the dinosaurs and the environment, they probably his his guessing was that you know Isla sauna is more dinosaurs in their natural habitat. So he wanted to try and get that on screen as well. So getting away from the jungle aspect and more to do with the um temperate uh forest. And you know, they did think about going to New Zealand, I think, for a bit.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, uh so on Jurassic Alpos, this uh is this says numerous locations were considered for filming, including the Caribbean, Central America, and New Zealand. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah, because Spielberg had a young family at this point as well, I think he needed to work in a way that was maybe a bit more sustainable and conducive to having that family. So I think being able to rap and go home, I think they had uh like block parties and stuff like that with a crew and cars. So it felt, you know, if you're making a family-oriented film, I think that comes across in the film that we get as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I was gonna say um the the uh the stuff with the T-Rex in the backyard and the kid in the house, yeah, and the stuff where the T-Rex knocks the ball off the sign at the gas station and all that stuff. Yeah, all of that's film, all of that was filmed in like northern LA um area, in some residential areas, um, like relatively close to each other too, like those two locations. Um but like that kind of plays into what you're saying about like Spielberg filming this close to home. Because like I think like the the place where they filmed the thing in the backyard with the kid is just like a it's a real house. So like it was like one of Spielberg's neighbors had to have been one of Spielberg's neighbors or something.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

So yeah, and also talking about the look of the film, another big part of the film is the um is Janusz Kaminsky coming on board as as as cinematographer. And I was a big fan of The Lost World when it came out originally, uh when I was like 10, 11, 12, and then Jurassic Park 3 came out, and I really like the fact that we went back to the bright colours of Jurassic Park and like the jungle and all that sort of stuff. Uh I I enjoyed that, and but it's only recently, actually in the past few years, that I've my love of The Lost World has come back slightly, and that's because I've been able to see it in 4K. Oh yeah. And just seeing the depth and the darkness, the contrast is amazing. And I'm just like, oh, that's yeah, it's uh I think Kathleen Kennedy calls it uh like a painterly approach to Jurassic that um Yanish brings.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

I I was lucky enough to see The Lost World in a movie theater last summer um on film. Um and it's wow man, it's gorgeous. Um the cam some of the camera work and shots in there are just absolutely great, just legendary stuff. So um the game trail stuff especially, but those the darkness and the contrast that you're talking about too is great.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

And Spielberg said that he wanted to do more with the camera for the Lost World because he because of the technology that he was working with in Jurassic Park, he had to almost like lock off the camera sometimes. And yet when he came back, he was just like, I'm not going to do that. So we're gonna have to get the you know, I want to be able to move the camera, so these dinosaurs, these CG dinosaurs are gonna have to move as well and match what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah, the like speaking about those game trail shots, um, like there's just so much action, so many dinosaurs going on there. Yeah, um, and it like the rigs and camera movements that were going on are just crazy. So it's it's awesome. And like going through the legs of the Mominky saurus, like stuff like that, it's great.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Yeah. And it really is the opposite to where we see the Brachiosaurus in Jurassic Park. It is extra, uh, to say the least.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

We uh we see the Brachiosaurus from many feet away. Yes. In the last world, we just drive right through the big sauropod's legs.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

So I think that just speaks to how revolutionary Jurassic Park was that even in its sequel that we've got to this point where the special effects are so well um integrated that they they they can do a a scene like the like the roundup.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah. It's just incredible.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

So yeah, it's an amazing in integration again of the special effects of RLM and and Stan Winston. Yeah, and I think I think it's it's overlooked sometimes, and people think about the first film, and it was amazing, but I think some of the developments that they managed to put, you know, Stan Winston and RM put in the sequel for Lost World are just another level.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Even though The Lost World is this sequel that maybe not as many people like or didn't get as make as much money, or you know, didn't get as much reception or whatever, like the Stan Winston animatronics and special effects are s like on the exact same level. They're phenomenal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

The bit with the the baby T Rex, the T Rex he actually made, you know, like there was two videos. Versions, I think, that he made, and one was um like completely remote controlled, and so no cables. And Spielberg was just like, the T-Rexes are amazing, but that that is a miracle what you've managed to do.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

And it still it still looks so real, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

And you you mentioned about the um score uh briefly, but Gary Um Ridstrom's um amazing sound design, I think, is what really brings it alive as well. Those strange like whistles that are going on in the background.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, well, there are so many like outlandish, unique sounds in The Lost World. Like when they first decide they're gonna take the baby T-Rex in the vehicle and they drive past Eddie and it's just squealing. Yeah. And uh for the longest time watching that movie as a kid, I did not know what that sound was. I was like, is that the baby T-Rex? Is it is it Eddie's car? Like, is it Eddie lifting the thing? The high hide up.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

I think I I think it's one of those moments where it starts with the sound of the high hide and then the T-Rex sound just perfectly matches it that was going through, and it's it's a great effect. Amazing. It's so cool. Yeah, it's awesome. But I think I think what we're what we're getting at is the fact that The Lost World has a really rich texture, both both visually and um sonically as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

What what what do you think about the return of Ian Malcolm for for this film and him, you know, is he is Ian Malcolm now the the true face of Jurassic Park of the Jurassic films, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So that's a fun question. Um I I personally, if there's a character I relate to most in the Jurassic franchise, it's probably Malcolm. Just sort of personality-wise, he's also he sort of he enjoys the dinosaurs like 10%, but then the other 90% is he's cynical and is telling everyone this is a horrible idea. Yeah. As far as characters are I relate to, I've got like a tiny bit of Grant in me, but I've mostly Malcolm, I would say. I enjoy Malcolm returning. I enjoy him getting to be, you know, basically the lead of a Jurassic movie. I uh have had this sort of discussion with other folks before. Um, I don't know if I've ever had it on a podcast, but like one in you know, in this age of movies that we live in, where there's so many sequels and spin-offs and reboots and remakes and all that stuff, and you know, old characters are coming back or making cameos and doing all that stuff. You could kind of say that Jurassic did that like a long time ago with The Lost World, because like this isn't necessarily like the sequel story that you would expect. And you have a returning character in Ian Malcolm who is not, you might not have expected to return and be the lead guy. Um, and so yeah, that's that makes it fun for me. That makes it really you that makes the story really unique. I think that's something that makes The Lost World awesome. Is you know, you have this character coming back who was traumatized in the last movie. Um, and now he's kind of he's kind of gets to do something about it reluctantly. In the end, he's vindicated because everyone knows that Injun let a dinosaur loose in San Diego, and he's like, see? Yeah, yeah, this these people are bad. Yeah. I told you. Um, and so uh long answer to say that I I love Malcolm coming back.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

I think he's part of that trend of the 90s where leading men were nerds, they were like Matthew Broderick in Godzilla. There was a there was a real move away from the stereotypes of Arnold Schwarzenegger and uh Sylvester Stallone, the kind of muscle men. Um and the 1990s had people who were good with computers as the people who were actually leading the film, and yeah, and Jeff Goldblum was part of that as well with um Independence Day.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

We never we never should have left the nineties. We were we were doing we were doing good things back then.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Doing so well, and then suddenly, suddenly we we're we're back now with like muscle muscle men all over the place. But yeah, just uh just give the guy in the chair a chance.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah, I agree. Give the smart give the smart guy who's got a little bit of like experience in these heroin situations, like Ian Malcolm, give him a chance.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Yeah. What what do you think of the rest of the cast that fill out the film? Because there's a lot more people involved in The Lost World than Jurassic Park.

The Return of Sarah Harding?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Oh yeah, yeah. Um, so I think Sarah Harding needs to come back to the franchise sometime. Yeah. Uh I think she's great. Um, I, you know, she might be number two female character in the franchise for me. She might be number one. It's hard to hard for me to put somebody above Ellie Sattler. But Sarah Harding is is a badass. And uh the that the moments with the Raptors in the climax of the film. Um where she and especially when she like busts through the window and breaks out of the place before they get in the helicopter, like she's just fantastic. I don't, you know, I'm I'm probably missing someone, but like, you know, haven't quite had a female character like that in a little while in the Jurassic franchise.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

And somebody who can match Malcolm. That great scene where they're kind of talking about when they're going towards the camp before Kelly, you know, they discover her fire and they're arguing about the scientific process and the fact that you've got to be laid of grass. Murphy's Law, that's it. And I just I would love to have somebody like that in a future film.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, I mean, honestly, uh Daniela Pineda in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion. Um, I thought her character was great and should have had like a thousand times more screen time. And don't get me wrong, Claire Claire Deering's great. She's just not the same type of character as Sarah Harding for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Um but the r on the rest of the cast, um, Pete Posselthwaite, legend. Yeah, absolutely incredible. That's the last time I leave you in charge. Like, and the shot from him behind his hat with the fire, and it's so great. There, but there are I mean, you know, it comes back to David Kepp a little bit just writing some good characters, some good mercs who get eaten.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Um and they they've all got some they've all got a little, even if they've got a very small screen time, they they all have like a unique point to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Very memorable, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah, you know, you've got Carter and you've got Peter Stormore's character who I can't remember. Dieter. Dieter, yeah, I said Dieter. Yeah. And Spielberg loves to take people like young actors or actors from like smaller independent films, and I think he gets like a real performance out of it because he kind of does the same with Jurassic Park and like Vince Vaughan is great. I love the film, and particularly at that point in his career.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah, I mean, and Vince Vaughn's done a lot of stuff now, but like I remember seeing Vince Vaughn in a Jurassic movie as a kid and being like, What this guy's supposed to be in comedy movies. What's happening? Yeah. And but he's like per he's perfect, he's so authentic.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Yeah, and I think Kepp and the way that Spielberg shoots the script is constantly having people talking over each other all the time that me multiple times throughout the film, there is one person having a conversation with somebody else and other people chipping in.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

And it that feels very 90s to me.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

You know, the lots of characters talking over each other, like that happens a lot in Jurassic Park 2. Um, like when they're at the Raptor Paddock and when they're in the dinner scene, and like that's something that I really like in The Lost World. I kind of hope that's gonna come back in rebirth too.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Yeah. So and I think I like the idea that Kepp talked to Spielberg and they took the book and they were like, this is a story about hunters versus gatherers, and immediately thought there's conflict. He can pit these two people against each other and he can have archetypes within there. So you've got Pete Potterswaite, you know, my namesake, Roland Tembo, as the great white hunter.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

When uh when you were first messaging me about you know, collaborating and being a part of this podcast, I was like, this guy's named Roland, and we're talking about Jurassic right now. Like, what what is happening? I know.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Yeah. And then uh we get Hammond's nephew, Ludlow, uh um Arlis Howard. And I think that's again, this is another Spielberg thing of taking family members and putting because he's um yeah, the nephew of um Hammond, and so therefore we've got conflict within the family, which Spielberg loves in his films. Yeah. And what I didn't realise until quite recently is the fact of his little hip flask that he's got.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Oh, when they're on the island.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Yeah. And he just slowly is getting steadily drunker as the film goes on.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Well, I mean, not that surprising, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

But I really like that as his kind of this is how he like if you look at everybody else within the cast and the characters, how they respond is to be resourceful and somewhat pull together and do things, but he just wants to get drunk and numb himself from the experience and detach himself.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah, and I I also think deep down he's just terrified, honestly, and he's trying to like numb that.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah, I love the fact that when he stands up and asks everybody to let's let's move on out, and nobody does.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

That moment, oh my gosh. Everybody! Oh yeah, great stuff. And then Nick Van Owen gets them to move.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yeah, and you've got Kelly, and and Kelly in the book is not related to Malcolm at all. Yeah. She's just a student that somehow manages to work her way onto the trailer.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, well, I mean, and there's another uh child character in the novel. Um and his name is escaping me. It starts with an R.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Arby.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah. Oh, yeah, starts with the uh the phonetic R meaning Arby. Yeah, but they're both like in the novel, they're both really s quite smart, quite resourceful. Arby, especially.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

And I think it works much better actually having her again another family conflict.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah, I I like uh well, I mean, first of all, uh Vanessa Leechester is is great, like such a fun performance, honestly. Like, but also it gives depth to Malcolm, um, just about his what he's been up to and his family, and uh it gives him like a family member to be protective of and have love for, even though he's not always the best at it.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

The big moment that happens, and it happens at a similar time to the main road attack, is of course the trailer attack. Do you want to talk me through a little bit about your feelings about about this uh about this moment?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

You know, Jurassic Park and The Lost World both, like you just said, like their most sort of impactful, suspenseful moments come like an hour-ish into the movie. Like the whole movie builds to this point. Um, and that's definitely true in The Lost World. And then the scene starts without music, and then some music comes in that's fairly subtle as we're starting to build what's going on here, and you're realizing they have a they have the child of a dinosaur that probably wants it back. Um, but you know, it's raining in classic Jurassic fashion. Um and the T-Rexes come to get their baby, that's when things really kick off. Like a lot of when the T-Rexes destroy the trailers, all of Malcolm's quips in this movie are just wonderful to me. But like, you know, he stands up into the light and says, Mommy, he says, hang on, this is gonna be bad. And it's like there's maybe a debate in the fandom about like what what does he see when he looks out the window and says that? Um, and I guess we don't have a definitive answer.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

He's just smarter than us. Well, that's what it's telling us. I've knows more than everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, because like they they have the encounter with the T the T-Rex parents before, and it's relatively calm. There's no music, and which makes it so suspenseful. Um, and they hand off the baby, and then you know, Malcolm says, Hang on, this is gonna be bad. Like, I've always thought he like see he must like see them coming back. He sees the T-Rexes charging back at them, and it's like, oh shit. The T-Rexes destroy the trailers. You know, the point that I can see in my brain in this scene that's really always really impactful is like Eddie Carr gets there, realizes what's happened, and the music kicks in. And you know, it's it's pouring rain, it's storming. The music is just this driving percussion, all sorts like so many percussion instruments involved. Um, and it's just relentless. And you know, the brass and the woodwinds are coming in and punching too, as we're in this harrowing situation. I I don't know how else to sum it up other than like it's just an incredibly suspenseful scene. I've seen it a hundred times, and I still watch it and I'm like, man, this is so intense. Like, and it's because of the cinematography and the music, and it's just very, very intense.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

And and the plotting as well of actually how you do an action sequence. It's almost a bit of a lost art within the Jurassic World films, I think. You start in one location with the trailers, and then you you end somewhere completely different, and it takes time, and the scene is allowed to breathe and get bigger and bigger and like more destructive. And there's moments where it'll quieten down again with when Sarah Harding is on the glass and it's all splintering around her fingers. And that's just that feels like perfect Spielberg tension building moment.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Oh yeah. Well, and the trailer scene does something that all Jurassics do or should do. Like Jurassic has always been about like vehicles. There's always been always been like cool vehicles involved and different cool, different vehicles, multiple vehicles, and like something that Jurassic has always done is make these vehicles into dangerous places. Like they get attacked by dinosaurs, they get turned over, they get bumped, they get smashed. And so, like this the trailer scene in The Lost World for me as a kid, even was another escalation from the first one because, like, in the first one, you just had cars and stuff like that. This one, you've got two massive RV trailers and they're going over a cliff, and so it's like making vehicles into a dangerous thing is is a staple of Jurassic, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Those safe that's the like one place that they can they should be able to feel safe. Yeah. And the death of Eddie Carr. I cannot, even at the age of 38, I still can't really watch that scene without feeling just so much pain for Eddie.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

It's it's visceral. It's you make an a very easy argument that it's the most violent death in the franchise. And it's classic.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Like he's such a nice character. He's I d I don't know what his vice is to to violence and technology, not good bedfellows. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I he his vice was being too good of a too good of a person.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Yeah, they needed, yeah, and I yeah, I love the fact that I mean I I hate the fact that he dies, but in that response, I love it because it's it's the safety gloves are off once Eddie Carr's gone and the trailers are gone. There is you know that nobody is gonna come and save them. They're gonna have to do it themselves.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Yeah.

The Tiger Raptors

SPEAKER_03 36:54

What do you think of the inclusion of the raptors in uh The Lost World? How do you think they do do they differ in the characterization than we get in the first in the first film? Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

They're the raptors that have been left to fend for themselves. And they're much wilder. And the tiger raptors specifically, you know, they're male, whereas the ones we saw primarily in Jurassic Park were female. And so, yeah, they're just vicious and aggressive. And that the cue and the score is called the Raptors Appear.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

My favorite tracco, I think, of it.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. For that scene at the end near the end of the film, the climax of the Sorna section of the film, which I think thanks in no small part to the music, but like I think it's just a all-time suspenseful Jurassic scene, all-time suspenseful suspenseful sci-fi scene, because it's the music is relentless and the raptors are relentless. Um, and it's just great.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

And we s again, we know more than the characters know, particularly in the long grass. You know, that's yeah, it's always the best when a filmmaker can show you something before a character sees it, and we just we just sigh because we know what's we're like, oh hell is gonna break loose in a minute.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

The long grass. I I wonder if we're getting some more of that in rebirth.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Just a little nod. That's all I need. I just need some raptors and some long grass or some tails going across.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah, I mean, any uh any vicious creature and some long grass would be fun.

Caleb's favourite Jurassic Musical fact!

SPEAKER_03 38:19

And as as we're kind of talking about a score, how do you think it differs to Jurassic Park?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Oh man, this is a chance to share my favorite Jurassic music fun fact, which is that John Williams, after he had written the score for Jurassic Park, hurt his back and was not able to conduct about 90 plus percent of the recording sessions for Jurassic Park. Okay. Um they brought in a guy named Artie Kane, who is a composer and a conductor, to conduct those scores. So The Lost World was the first Jurassic score that John Williams conducted in its entirety. And I think absolutely nothing against Jurassic Park because it's the best score ever. I'm a little biased, but you know, I think in the Lost World score, you can feel that a little bit. Like you can feel there's just this energy, and it's real there's so much spirit in it. But it's also so starkly different to the Jurassic Park score. Um in instrument choices, in style choices, and rhythm choices. Um there's so much, you know, so many different percussion instruments involved and used in crazy unique ways. Um the bass drum in the Lost World score is used in ways that like other film scores do not use it. Like it's in the game trail scene, if you listen closely, the Mementosaurus, the bass drum, is just like making its footsteps in the game in the game trail scene. And it's used as footsteps in in other musical moments too. Um, and that just doesn't get that doesn't happen very often. Like movies don't call for that very often because there's not big dinosaurs stepping around. And so the score is just so primal, but it's also full of so much adventure. Like when they get to the island and they roll out in the trailers across that plain, like grassland or whatever you want to call it, and the score there, just triumphant brass and woodwinds on that theme that we all know and love. Um, the theme itself is really unique, uh, just to be a music nerd for a second, but like it just chromatically walks up the scale, basically, C D E F in a lot of instances, on those chords right in a row. And so that's just a really unique musical thing. Um, it's you know takes it out of the context of a normal scale and makes it feel very adventurous and mysterious, and I don't know. It's just it's brilliant, honestly. If you I I love this score, if you can't tell.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

So yeah. No, it's it's yeah, I I I enjoy it too, and I think I enjoy it. I think probably more than Jurassic Park. I think there are moments in there which are I just feel like Williams letting loose, and he doesn't fall back on the Jurassic Park theme or anything like that. That's not it's not really part of the score.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah, I you know John Williams doesn't do that many sequels, um, as evidenced by Jurassic. Um, because he's only done two out of the six. Um and he's done all the Star Wars and he's done all the Indiana Jones. Um that's I mean, honestly, it's another reason that this movie and this score are very valuable to me, very high up on my personal ranking as a fan, um, just because it's something that doesn't ha hasn't happened very often. Spielberg and Williams working together again on a sequel for Jurassic Park.

Original Ending

SPEAKER_03 41:52

Yeah. What do we know about the original ending? Because a bit like Jurassic Park, Spielberg decided to change the ending for Jurassic Park, and he did the same for The Lost World. Um, what's what is the original ending for The Lost World that they were gonna film?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

So to my knowledge, it was we take off from Sorna in a helicopter, and it is ter it is attacked by Pteranodons. That was what I just mentioned was Spielberg's original ending. The original ending was supposed to feature Pteranodons attacking the escape helicopter, but this was cut when Steven Spielberg suggested the San Diego sequence, which would bring dinosaurs to the mainland. The concept was initially going to feature in a third Jurassic movie, the Pteranodon sequence, but Spielberg decided to put it into the second as he did not think he would direct another. Oh, sorry, I misunderstood that. The Dinosaurs on the mainland concept was initially going to feature in a third Jurassic movie. Oh, I see. But Spielberg decided to put it into the second as he did not think he would direct another.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

So taking away that from uh Joe Jones, we're probably not gonna do another one, so we're gonna take all the best ideas.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I mean, I'm fairly look at it, yeah. Um, but all I mean, uh he was right, I guess he hasn't directed another one. The sequence take takes place in San Diego, California, but only one sequence was actually filmed there. Um when the engine helicopter flies over the wharf and banks towards the city, that is actually San Diego. The rest of the scenes were filmed in Burbank, California.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

I think I think the the new ending of the San Diego stuff that ties in nicely to King Kong and obviously to Alpha Conan Doyle's.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

And Godzilla original.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah, Godzilla. Yeah. Yeah, it's that it's Spielberg having his cake and eating it. I think if I'm gonna do a dinosaur movie, I'm not gonna let somebody else go and have all the fun of putting a dinosaur on the mainland. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

True. Well, and we never uh you know, if this if we'd gotten the original ending, we probably would have never gotten the sequence of David Kepp being eaten in front of a blockbuster. No, which is brilliant. Which is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

And is there's loads of crew apparently in that bit.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

I think I spotted because I watched it the other day. I think Kathleen Kennedy is there as well as part of that group. I'm not sure, but that'd be cool. And I think because I think it's a load of crew that are running, and then David Kepp is the one that gets singled out and needs to.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

So uh Jack and Ryan and I, uh members of Outpost, we've been to the spot where they filmed all of this and where David Kepp got eaten and you know.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Did did did did you lay some flowers?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

I was about to say we you know we scatter we scattered some uh Jurassic toys or something. I don't know.

unknown 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

But lit a candle. Yeah, it's a cool it's a cool spot. It does not look the same.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Right. And I also love where the bus goes into the blockbuster.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

All the video store and it's uh like all the fake move movie posters.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yeah, well, and like it as a kid, like that that contributed to like this movie is just so chaotic and so much action.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah, I think it's a good thing to leave you with as you walk out.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

So yeah, the film was a um it was a box office success. Probably didn't take as much as Jurassic Park, um but it wasn't quite as successful, you know, critically. And I I think that's fine. I think even Spielberg says that, you know, it's not as good as Jurassic Park, but it's still a good time. You know, he and I think that's kind of all you need from a from a sequel. Do you do you think it's a good continuation of the Jurassic story?

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah, definitely. To what I was saying earlier about it kind of being a spin-off film, like it just feels it feels closely related to the first one, but it doesn't feel like a big blockbuster sequel type of a thing. So and I think it adds so much lore to the franchise, obviously, and to the story. And yeah, we've uh we need to go back to Sorna.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Yes. I've mentioned this, and you'll probably hear me, dear listeners, speak about this man m many times going forward. But once they leave an island, they seem to never want to go back there. And then when they go back there, they forget the island that they've just left. So we go from Eastland Nublar to Sauna, and then we stay in Sauna and never go back to Nublar, and we're all like, Oh please I want to go back to Nublar. So then we all go back to Nublar, and then we blow up Nublar, and Sauna never gets a mention, just gets like a drop line in Fallen Kingdom, and it's out there somewhere. Now, now the now the thing is let's go back to Sauna.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Now I wonder if it's ever gonna happen, but with David Kevin. Yeah, well, and like I wonder if you know if Sauna is ever gonna come into play somehow, whether it's down the line somewhere or what. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Maybe because he was instrumental in bringing Sauna to the screen, I I'm interested to see whether it's gonna feature at least in dialogue, maybe, for this film.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

I I mean I I would almost guarantee that. That sounds I don't know, it might sound forward or crazy, but I bet I bet it gets mentioned. So Yeah.

Caleb's Favourite Moment

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Wonderful. Well just um yeah, uh have you got any kind of closing thoughts about um The Lost World or anything that you'd like to kind of maybe your favorite moment that you kind of rewind, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Oh man. Um the score that's under the climax of the movie, the T-Rex in San Diego, is called Visitor in San Diego. And I've I've always loved that cue title because it's so sim is so simple, but it says so much because it's like this isn't like a per this isn't a tourist, this is a monster. So um, and that musical cue is just organized chaos. Like, there's just so much going on in that music, every section of the orchestra, um, and it's just an incredible piece of music. And so, like, that's just always when I watch The Lost World. I love the rest of the movie, but then I get to the end and I'm like, yes, I get like I made it to the San Diego sequence because the San Diego sequence is just it's just a blast, and the music is a blast too. And so I love the shot when uh they're in all those warehouses and the animal and like four animal control vehicles pull up and they just immediately turn around around. And it's just like, yes, that's exactly what should happen. It's great, it's uh great.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

It's a crazy sign, no animals beyond this point.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah, yeah. It's it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

And I love that we pan through that that office where you see like kids and everything like that, and just another world going on as the T-Rex makes its way and then roars at the city. I love that kind of look like little bits of extra life that we get in the shop. And that's where you have the kind of bum bum bum, which feels like bum bum bum bum.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah, it's so it's modern, it's modern, but it's like uh there's some classic like monster movie stuff in there, and it's Max Star, yeah, yeah, good shout out.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Nice, yeah. Um, so yeah, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a real blast. And um also thank you for creating my amazing theme music. I've had I I love it and I've had some really nice feedback about it too. So thanks.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Of course. Thank you for having me. Um, thank you for asking me to do that. Um, I can all I mean, that's something I can pretty much never say no to is when someone says, Hey, do you want to create music for my Jurassic thing? Yes, immediately. Yes, I do, because Jurassic is the best. And so um thanks for letting me be part of this podcast. And yeah, I hope lots of people listen to this podcast because it's great.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

Thank you, thank you very much. Um, where can people find you online?

SPEAKER_00 49:32

So I'm at Caleb Composed on pretty much everything, uh, including YouTube, where you can also find me just under my name, Caleb Burnett. Um, I'm uh making music and unboxing toys and making vlogs over there. So uh yeah, at Caleb Compose.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah, and I look forward to listening to you on the uh in general podcast.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Oh, yes. Great. Uh I should definitely say that. Uh follow the Jurassic Outpost and uh listen to the In General podcast, uh, where I am uh somewhat regularly on there and uh my music is also on there.

Episode Sign off

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Amazing. Well, thank you again so much for joining me. My huge thanks to Caleb for that conversation. If you liked it, then can I please ask that you share it on social media using the hashtag road to rebirthpod. You can also follow the show on Instagram at road to rebirthpod. Next week I'm chatting with Daniel Stephen of the amazing Stuck on Sauna podcast about 2001's Jurassic Park 3. But until then, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.