Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) with Samantha Endres

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Fallen Kingdom is the gothic sheep of the family. It continues to divide fans but since its release is it well worth a rewatch?

In this episode I'm joined by the fantastic Samantha Endres from ‘Jurassic Outpost’

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You know, Zia, just I don't know, kind of the take no shit. Like she knows her stuff. Like she wants to go help these dinosaurs. And Franklin kind of feel for the guy of like he's a little he's a little scared of the dinosaurs. Like he doesn't necessarily want to go. But also I think that's kind of relatable. Like, hey, I want to help. Oh no. How am how did I get signed up to go to the island of the dinosaurs? Oh no. Like, I'm just the ID guy.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. After the huge success of Jurassic World in 2015, a sequel was a mere formality. But Colin Trevaro stepped aside to pursue other projects and helped the series evolve in a new direction. In his place came Spanish director J.A. Biona, known for films like The Orphanage, The Impossible, and Monster Calls. Biona brought a much darker, more emotional approach to this Jurassic story. To help me unpack this shift in tone and storytelling, I'm thrilled to be joined by someone who's been deeply embedded in the Jurassic community. She's been involved with Jurassic Outpost, see Jurassic Write, and even helped shape the viral marketing campaign for Jurassic World Dominion. Please welcome to the podcast, Samantha Andres. Samantha, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I'm excited to talk about it. Cool. I was wondering whether you could kick us off by just telling me a little bit about your Jurassic story, really. Why Jurassic?

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Sure. Um, I think like many people kind of around our age grew up with Jurassic and kind of evolved once uh World came out. I didn't necessarily know that there was such a big fan base for it. Like it was just, you know, me talking with friends in person. So what quickly escalated to finding a whole community on Twitter turned into having a a core group of friends that we had a Jurassic Fantasy Football League. Yeah, and we wow, yeah, we became friends that way, and we all have like uh Jurassic-themed fantasy football names, you know, led to them some being some of my best friends, which led to being asked to be part of Outpost. And then Outpost kind of led to Dominion uh marketing in a way. Um it's you know, it's just been great like community to be in, being able to talk about dinosaurs with people, you know, as adults. You how often do you get a chance to just figure it out about those things? So yeah, no, it's been a great community to be a part of the last few years.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

And are you excited for Rebirth?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

I am. I'm very excited. I'm a big Scarlett Johansson fan.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Black Widow, one of my favorite characters. So I was very excited to see her being the main character in this movie. And, you know, just the whole entire cast seems like it's gonna be good. And I like that it's kind of a a fresh quote unquote rebirth. Yeah, exactly. But you know, kind of a a loose reboot, if you will, but uh still sticking to you know the base of what we know with David Kepp. And I think that got me even more excited when we knew David Kepp was coming back, and like yeah, I think the PR has all been kind of hinging on like we've got David Kepp back.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

It's it's uh it's rare that you get a a writer that is leading the marketing campaign of your film. Right. When you've got somebody like Scarlett Johansson and Jonathan Bailey and Maherschal Harley, yeah, and David Kepp is there.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yeah, it's like he's been one of the the big names since the beginning, which I find interesting. Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm just in general, excited to see what what happens. And I'm I'm just a fan of these movies in general, so uh I will watch whatever they give me. Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

So today we're talking about Fallen Kingdom, and I was wondering whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for the Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

So Fallen Kingdom, it's not necessarily doesn't kick off because we have a nice little prologue at the beginning. Um, and I think it's about six months after where we see the cool little submarine scene. But for the most part, the movie takes place about three years after the events of Jurassic World, where you know everything went to hell uh and the park no longer exists. And where we come in is finding out that Mount Sebo, which was a formerly dormant volcano, is no longer dormant, and there's an eruption impending, and it's going to threaten the entire island and possibly kill all the dinosaurs on there. From there, we get back to Claire. Uh Claire's had kind of a life change, and she is a part of Dinosaur Protection Group, which is, I think, a fun new group that was brought in for this film. And she's very much about wanting to save the dinosaurs. But how are we gonna do that when our government has said we're we're leaving them? It's it's fine. We're not gonna we're not gonna send anybody to help. Which then spirals into Owen, you know, some help from from a whole nother mysterious uh new character, Benjamin Lockwood. And yeah, we we go from there with with dinosaur adventures.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Nice, cool. What was your first reaction when you've when when you saw it for the first time?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

So I actually, because of Jurassic Outpost, I got to go to the premiere. So that was my first time seeing it, which is an experience in you know in itself. Yeah. It was, I don't know, I really liked Bayona's, and I think we've kind of chatted about this uh beforehand, but kind of the gothic nature of like the the latter half of the movie, you know, and always the the imagery of the Indoraptor on top of the house. That always got me excited. Like I love seeing that just kind of dark, moody kind of uh uh dinosaurs. In general, uh it wasn't necessarily my favorite right off. And I mean, I still love the movie, but uh I feel like it was a little bit disjointed when I watched it. Like it very much feels kind of like the first part and the island and then going to the Lockwood estate, like two different kinds of movie feeling. That being said, I like both parts, but when they got, you know, kind of mushed together, it's like this feels like a lot to take in. Overall, I thought it was a nice adventure. I really liked uh, especially like Claire's arc and getting to explore her going from the capitalist to the naturalist and being part of that dinosaur protection group. I really enjoyed her centering around her and and you know how her feelings and thoughts shifted. And yeah, I don't know. I was I was obviously very emotional too because of the brachiosaurus. Like that's I think that was a a hit.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

I I when I first saw it, I I this is the only Jurassic Park film that I think I've only seen once in the cinema. And I just didn't know how to take it. Yeah. Like I had a bit of a slow start to Jurassic World, but after a couple of viewings, I really got invested in it and was really enjoying it and enjoying the audience reaction. And then it, yeah, as you say, the film is one of two halves, really. And in first viewing, I was unsure of how they both went together and whether they did it successfully. Having been, I mean, were you a f had you seen things like The Orphanage and Impossible? Um, had you seen those before?

SPEAKER_03 7:45

No, no, I wasn't, uh I hadn't seen any Bayona's work beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, so I saw The Orphanage, which was when it was first very gothic Spanish horror film, and I'd been to see A Monster Cause the Christmas beforehand, basically because I knew he was going to do it, but I was a fan of him anyway. That have have you seen a Monster Cause? I haven't, no. Jeez. It is I I saw it on a a snowy evening, and I have never experienced uh what sadness felt like in in the company of other people. I uh I it's a very harrowing tale about uh a mum who's dying of cancer and the son who's dealing with the grief, and the grief is manifesting itself in this giant. But when when the film finished, no, you could just hear like little sniffs, little handkerchiefs coming out, and then yeah, we just drove home in silence as the snow uh fell around us. And I was like, he's gonna make a Jurassic Park film.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

This is I don't know, but how is this gonna fit?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah. So watching it more recently, I think I've grown to really enjoy the film a lot more, uh, to the point where I think it is now my favourite of the world trilogy. Oh, really? Okay. Watching it for the later time for this for this podcast, I just I I was just amazed at how well it worked for me. I think because of the gothic elements, I think because I understood what he was going for, it's much pulpier, it's like a sort of Vincent Price 1960s, William Castle, but also he adds a real amount of heart and uh tangibility to the animals, which wasn't really there because there's so much in of CGI in Jurassic World, and there's a lot more animatronics, and they feel really great, and he makes sure that those scenes are really pivotal. If we talk about you said about the opening of the film, so I think everybody I've spoken to so far loves the opening of Fallen Kingdom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

What's what's your take on that? No, I I think Fallen Kingdom, I feel like, is one of those movies that's kind of very divisive in the Jurassic fandom, but I feel like we all like that opening sequence. Just the the creepiness, I feel like, and and kind of the it's dark, it's you know, we've got the underwater elements of of what are we searching for? They're looking for something. And you know, coupled with the people on that are still on the uh on the land and like, oh, something's moving behind them. We know dinosaur movies, this is not gonna end well. Yeah, but yeah, no, I feel like that was a very good little Jurassic, even like short film, just that sequence. Yeah, and then you know, obviously kicking off the like, oh, they're on a mission to get to recover things from Jurassic Worlds and obviously gonna do something with it, make more dinosaurs or or whatever they wanted to do. So it was, I feel like it was a really great kickoff to getting back into Jurassic and like where we are after the events of world. I also really liked for I don't know, maybe this is the dark gothic lover in me, but the fact that Indominus Rex was this big, you know, bad guy in the in the world, and then it's a skeleton, like we're just looking through its bones in in Fallen Kingdom, and I don't know, I really I really like that. Macabre nature to it. Yeah, yeah, I thought that was cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

So I think they added that because they knew that they weren't gonna have like a big bit of action for a little while. And yeah, then we do get involved with Claire and Owen returning, and we as you said about Claire's um character development in this film, she's obviously gone through a lot. We kind of in are introduced to her in exactly the same way we are in Jurassic World, the same pan up. Yeah, um, she's still got the high heels on, um but she's in a completely different thing. I like that the lift door doesn't open correctly when she comes through. So you know what she's working with now. Does the backstory of what Claire and Owen have been through in the intervening years, do you think their relationship is do you buy into it? Do you buy into the fact that these two like each other or have done? I was watching it this time and I was like, I don't know whether I know whether they've been a couple. It fit it doesn't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, I I don't feel like they they fit together, honestly, after Claire's kind of when she's going on her arc. Like she's kind of figuring out her life right now, and Owen Owen's Owen. I don't feel like he changes all that much through these movies. Um so the fact that they're kind of dancing around each other, it's it's there, it it doesn't do a whole lot for me. Liked them as like characters in this movie to be working together, but as like a romance, it was take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I do feel like there's a they're a little bit more seasoned, particularly Bryce Dallas Howard, I think, feels much more comfortable in a role this time. And I read that Spielberg wanted to foster a kind of Kerry Grant, Katherine Hepburn sort of thing between them, almost like he did with like Indiana Jones and Marion in those films. And you do get when I read that and then thinking about the films, I think, yeah, there's all those little moments where they kind of have a little go at each other. Yeah, but we I you don't get that moment where they come together at the end. I just would feel like they've been through this journey, but you want some resolution to that, all of the little stuff that they've been on towards the end, you know. Yeah, it's something that's missed, and then or you anticipate that it's gonna be a big moment in Dominion, and then suddenly they're just living together.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And you kind of skip over the bits that we wanted to see of their relationship.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Yeah, exactly. That I think you kind of hit it there with there was never that moment of like, oh, they work together. I feel like the transition from Fallen King of Dominion is just like we kind of have to be together because of Maisie. Like and we're kind of in this whole situation together. But like, do they really work?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah, I don't know. It's a I think it's a big I like both of them, but as a as as as a couple, it's just I think Owen doesn't change enough through the films, he slowly just disappears, I think.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Yeah. Fades out.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah. Whereas Claire rises out and is, you know, feel like her character has changed from being this corporate person who didn't want children to now being a mum at the end of it. We also get Zia and and and Franklin. Jurassic always has to bring on new characters, seemingly, in each in each film.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Do you enjoy? Do you enjoy their their addition?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

I I did. I think they both brought some very like fresh dynamic to the Claire and Owen pairing. Um, I think they needed that kind of, you know, a Zia, just I don't know, kind of the take no shit. Like she knows her stuff, like she wants to go help these dinosaurs and Franklin kind of feel for the guy of like he's a little he's a little scared of the dinosaurs. Like he doesn't necessarily want to go. Yeah. But also I think that's kind of relatable. Like, hey, I want to help. Oh no. How am I how did I get signed up to go to the island with the dinosaurs? Oh no, like I'm just the IT guy.

unknown 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

But no, I thought they they brought a nice, like, fresh feeling to it and like you needed some kind of new, you know. I think it would have suffered, the movie would have suffered a little bit if we didn't have if it was just like Owen and Claire again, and we didn't have those kind of extra characters in there.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah. And I don't yeah, I like the fact that Franklin doesn't change because at the end they say, Are you okay? Nope.

unknown 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

I feel like he's the most relatable, like probably how most of us would react if this was actually real life.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Like, I'd I'd empty all the bug spray onto my arms before I step foot on Isla Nublon.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

But yeah, I enjoy, I like I like both of them. I like the fact that she the the kind of backstory for Zia is the fact that she's a paleo-vetinarian who did all of her you know courses just about to go out, and then suddenly uh the park just as you say all goes to hell and she's not she doesn't actually get to go.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah. Also very relatable of like working towards something and and you know of course this was pre-COVID, but kind of ties into that. Like, oh, we had plans and oops, nope, not gonna go the way we thought it would see you next year, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah. Fallen Kingdom will always be remembered, I think, for being the one that blew up the island, you know, taking that from Michael Crichton's ending, even though it's not napalm that destroys it, it's lava. But does that work for you? Do you think I mean, and this is interesting talking about it because of what Rebirth is doing, but do you think that was a good enough reason for this film? Do you think that was the right decision to make?

SPEAKER_03 17:03

I like that they brought in the volcano elements, because I do that was something just personally I kind of missed of uh, you know, the the gap from the the novel to the movies. And realistically, you know, like we're based on Hawaii, you know, with the filming and everything, and it makes sense for there to be volcanoes. I I don't know, personally, I think how the eruption was done with them and the timing of the people being on the island, it was a little little much for me, a little corny uh in parts, especially I know my my first viewing I I was kind of taken aback by the ON sequence of him like rolling away from the lava. I'm like, uh, what's going on? What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I quite like that now. I think that and I I think that ties uh maybe I'm just thinking too much about these films, but I I think it ties into because he is very, you know, he's known for his gothic films, darkness, but real strong elements of like slapstick, because his I mean that's the reason why he has uh Geraldine Chaplin, I think in his film, tie back to that golden age of Holl Hollywood, really, and that is straight out of a chaplain or a Buster Keaton moment. I was thinking, yeah, and plus it feels right for Chris Pratt to do that as a can be the you know comedy actor originally, and that's and watching it this time after just watching Dominion. If you watch it that way around, if you watch Dominion first and then you go back to Fallen Kingdom, you're like, oh, where was any of this stuff, this really fun bits that Owen does, his one-liners, they're really not there at all in Dominion. So I'm I'm glad that his job is just to be a bit of light relief beefcake.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's that's absolutely true. Um, because yeah, I feel like that would if we didn't have that, uh to your point, it probably would have shifted how uh the tone of that, like it would have just been complete destruction. And then of course we we get to the the sadness of you know yeah the Brachiosaurus and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Because it's all I think it's building up all of that fun. It's still because what he needs to do, Bayona in this film, is to get to that ending where Maisie lets the animals, lets all the dinosaurs out.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So we need to really care about them, to really be invested in them and want them to survive at all costs. And the film does its best to try and put them in peril for the entire running time. So you have them like drowning when they're throwing themselves off the you know, it's and then you have the brachiosaur scene, and it's like all the fun and excitement of trying to get on that boat, and then you see that brachiosaur moment, you're like, that's that that's my childhood burning over there.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

You're like, wait, I don't like this anymore. No, yeah, I completely agree with the with the with the dinosaurs. Like, I think that beautifully ties into the ending of Maisie's decision to like let them go, because you couldn't save a lot of the ones on the island. Yeah. And you know, we watched multiple die during that sequence. So yeah, I think that that ties in really well. It's like, okay, well, Maisie gets to save, you know, these ones at least, even though we I I I don't I don't hate the Brachiosaurus scene, but I'm forever mad that I they did that to us as fans.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, and the way that the music is a very somber reflection of like the Jurassic Park theme.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

That's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I think Jakino goes a little bit overboard in I remember when I talked to Brad, and it's just slowly he understands a little bit by the time Dominion happens, but there's multiple moments during Jurassic Park and The Lost World where there is no music.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

And when I was talking to Neil Brand, he's he said to me it's because uh a cynic would say that the the music isn't trying to make you feel anything other than what you're seeing. So maybe with Fallen Kingdom and I think particularly Fallen Kingdom, there is a constant drive of the music, which is all melodramatic. It's just trying to make you heighten your emotions for absolutely everything. Be scared, yeah, be be sad, you know, all of these things. Yeah, I think I I do like what he does, but I think, yeah, just just dial it back a bit, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Yeah, yeah. No. Um definitely I feel like, and and this kind of gets back to what we were talking about earlier, is it kind of feels like two different movies. Like once we're at that part where the Brachiosaurus dies, they you know, they're off the island at that point. I feel like you're kind of holding your breath, kind of relieved, like, but it's like where where are we gonna go from here? Like because we know, you know, the movie's what, half over at this point. Like something has to go wrong. You know, I don't know that I necessarily knew they were gonna go into that whole like uh underground, you know, scene of like selling the dinosaurs. And the the interesting part about that for me was they're not going for as much money as I figured that they would.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Exactly. Yeah. I remember I like I I don't know much about football, but I know that footballers going right as much more than an than an Allosaurus. So easier.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah. Yeah. Mind boggling. I'm like, oh, like technically someone, you know, a a normal billionaire could like buy one of these. Uh okay. Like, can we pool our money and buy an allosaurus?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah. Sponsor. Yeah. Do you take do yeah? Do you take PayPal? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

I feel like they might.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Like in the desperate. Yeah. Just at literally anything. After we have the Brachiosaurus scene and we've got the the crux of the film is all based on that blue surgery scene. Do you think he succeeds in that moment of getting us to really buy into the relationship of Owen and Blue? And because Maisie's watching, I kind of intercut it with Maisie watching Owen raising.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah, I mean, I definitely was emotional during that scene. Cause I think just being like a pet owner, you know, my whole life, and like it's it's kind of relatable where it's like they're they're going through a surgery, you know, it they're in pain. You can't do anything. Regardless if this thing could actually eat your face off, like you're still attached to it. And I think it's probably similar. Not that I am a zookeeper, obviously, but um, you know, I think of like the zoo keepers or people in refuges when they, you know, they take in the big tigers and lions and stuff and that. It's like they kind of have a similar relationship, I would think, to how Owen is with Blue, where it's like, he's not, you know, it's not the pet, but you still feel for that. I liked seeing uh being able to see Zia too. Um, I think that was helped with the emotional part of like it's not some random person uh you know operating. Like we've come to know Zia, know that you know she's she's new at this, but this is kind of her dream, you know. Uh yeah, no, I I think that really helped with the emotional like transfer from uh you know the island to off-island, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, yeah. Like the he still gets in the kind of squishy elements of so the the blood still spurts out and strikes Franklin in the face.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Poor Franklin.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

You know, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Of course it would be Franklin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

And you get the T-Rex moment where they're you know, it's all very practical, it's all very touchy-feely with the dinosaurs, which I really enjoy. And again, I like the Claire has some rather funny moments. There's a bit where just before while they're being attacked by the baryonyx, and she just shouts and points chair. And I really like the delivery of that line. And I like it when they when they've just she gets a really like strong stance, it's just like chair.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

And the bit where they've just come out from the T-Rex thing, and she's got her face against the door, like the back of the truck, and Owen's like, please tell me you've got the blood. And she just doesn't turn, she just raises up the big bag of blood next to it. And I just it's those little moments that add the humour or tension, like reliever from the scene. They're not big moments, and they don't have to be huge laugh out loud moments, but they're just little character moments. And I think J.A. Biona adds into those sort of things. He knows how people work in situations due to his other just watching his other films. Yeah. So you were saying about the the underground layer that is what what do you think of the whole idea of making Benjamin Lockwood and tie in with Hammond? Supposedly he what that wasn't the original plan. He was meant to be a new character, no connection to Hammond at all. Does this annoy you as a as a fan? What do what does this do to the canon in your mind?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Um I mean, not really. Uh, it doesn't annoy me that much. I feel like they probably could have done more with it in Dominion, but um, I don't know, maybe this is where supplemental novels would be a fun thing to do and have that, you know, flashback to Lockwood and Hammond's relationship and them building the park or whatever. But no, I mean, I I don't think it's surprising for me that there would be somebody that worked with Hammond, you know? And it's it's kind of a not necessarily bad guys, but like the corporate uh corporate people who start a company together and they have a falling out. It's kind of a you know a very realistic thing. Yeah. You know, I'm like, we introduce this new character and we're supposed to trust him immediately. Like, oh yeah, I want to help with the dinosaurs. Do you? It's because he's the blokey babe. Yeah, that's why he's trying to trick us with the casting.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I think I d I like how again it it feeds into that pulpy element of it. It's that it's almost like, what do you mean John Hammond's got a secret brother or something? You know, he was he was a twin. It's yeah, it's almost like kind of that reveal.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

I think I think James Cromwell's good as good as him, even though he gets very reduced screen time, he's just wheeled off for his bath occasionally and for his medications. And then killed. And then killed, yes. Yes, killed by um Eli Mills. And what do you I think this film does really well actually in the the human villains that we have? Again, not focusing on the fact that the dinosaurs are the ones that you know they might kill you or whatever, but this again film needs to make you care about the dinosaurs more, so we need more bad guys and quite politically charged bad guys during the making of this film. What's your take on like Ted Levine as Ken Wheatley and Toby Jones?

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah, well, one, I just love the actors, so I was very excited when you know they were cast. Ted Levine is amazing, so I was like, I know I'm gonna like him in the role, even though I probably, you know, like odds are we're not gonna like him as a character, which you know turns out to be true. It's like a very realistic thing. These people are just trying to make money off of the dinosaurs, however they can, you know, and one of the scenes that always sticks out in my mind is is when uh Ted Levine's character like pulls the the tooth, kind of establishes like, oh, he's he's not one of the good guys.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Like, yeah. I I was reading that Derek Connolly based him on the do you remember that dentist in America that went to Africa and killed Ode of Lions and posted pictures about it? So that was going on while they were writing it, and so that's why he takes the teeth. That's because he's a dentist. So it's this like sick like coming together of the real life and this chemical.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah, and again, like that's it's very realistic, like of what you know, what would happen um if there were dinosaurs, like the these people are still out there, like it's gonna happen. But no, I really enjoyed their characters and um, you know, they had their own motivations, um, you know, and it wasn't just mush mustache twirling like evil villains, you know, like it was a nice like added again with kind of the the um expanding the cast, like bringing in these new people and uh you know bringing in kind of a fresh feel to it.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah. I enjoy uh the fact that Toby Jones chose his own wig and dentures for that for that. It's just such a great but again. I was looking when I first watched it, I was just like, this is too big, this is too much, I can't and then since watching it and since watching a load of s schlocky B movies from the 50s and 60s, I'm just like, this is exactly what this is, but with a mammoth budget. And so whatever Bayona's doing, and the fact that I really enjoy all of the kind of Roger Corman, yeah, Edgar Allan Poe things, it feels like that's what they're going for, particularly Poe with the the fact that everything is in a basement and like you know, or like Lovecraft, you know, there's there's always something horrible in the basement in one of those books. Right. So talking about the gothic elements, which is clearly there, what's your so do you you like gothic fiction, I take it, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Oh yeah, absolutely, 100%. Uh is this kind of standout stories for you or oh um well, movie-wise, uh Crimson Peak is one of the newer ones that I've I've loved. Um, but you know, going back, you know, what you're referencing, like there's always something in the basement with Poe. But I love Poe's stuff, you know, going to Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, Dracula. I mean, you know, kind of just anything that's that moody, dark, um, even aspects of like North Anger Abbey by Jane Austen um gets into like that gothic feeling. But yeah, I just I love it. I love it so much. I seek it out. I just like the the vibes of it for for lack of a better terminology.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Do you think that works when you throw in dinosaurs? Do you think Bayona succeeds in taking that gothic architecture and kind of putting it all into the I personally I think it did.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I think the second half of the movie is my favorite of the movie. And I think like if that had been a standalone movie on its own, of just centered around Maisie and you know, she's the main character we know. Well, maybe we don't even know. It could be a a non, you know, we don't know it's a dinosaur in the basement or whatever. But uh, you know, to your point of like, oh, it's this girl, she's in a you know, big house, seems normal. What's going on? And then that like creepy aspect of, you know, there's actually a creature in the basement. And, you know, I just I feel like that kind of gets to um, you know, like we were briefly talking about like Frankenstein, uh, you know, just the the creature, like what is it? And I don't know, I feel like that would have been a really like in my head, that's a really fun, just like gothic standalone movie on its own, um, centered around Maisie. But no, I think it was very fitting to put in, you know, this new dinosaur that they could make it very creepy, you know, because I always think of, and it was of course used as a promotional image, but the the Indoraptor arm, you know, reaching for Maisie.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Nosphora to S.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. Like that that's that's what spoke to me about this movie. And I know and when you asked to talk about Fallen Kingdom, that's what came to my mind. And so when I had to re-watch it, I was like, oh yeah, the whole first half of this movie happens before we get there. Yeah, because just before we get there, that part is what sticks in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I was so I finished Frankenstein reading Frankenstein, never read it before because it's even mentioned in the when Jurassic World Rebirth had its first bit in Variety. The opening quote of that article was all from Frankenstein. So it's something that we keep coming back to in this series. And I'm probably thinking too much, but it feels like Maisie and uh the Indoraptor are both for me like Frankenstein's creature. I think they are two sides of that character. One is the one that wants to be compassionate and wants to fit into the world, which is Maisie. Um we get the revelation that she is a human clone in this film, a big, big swing for this series, but one I think that feels quite earned. Do you do you think it the twist held up for you when you watched it?

SPEAKER_03 34:08

I think it did in in like how they executed it. Like there was a reason that they were cloning Maisie and it was just Maisie. I'm glad they didn't go into like more people clones, um, or you know, I think Jurassic Community has talked about this, but like the the human dinosaur hybrids, like that was obviously kind of I don't know whether you're a fan or not of it, but a fear amongst a lot of people in the community. But no, I enjoyed it, and I think I enjoyed that aspect of it because I like other Crichton works. Um, like specifically, this was two when um Westworld was still on, and I love Westworld, and uh so it was kind of scratching that itch along with it. But yeah, what what about you? What did you think of the the clone?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah, it's good. I'm kind of watching it now, having seen Dominion, it's such a huge thing for the film, and then we sort of walk back from it in Dominion, we walk away from the scary thing that is human cloning and human genetics, whereas I think Crichton would have really lent into it and not had hundreds of people being cloned, but the idea that that technology is also available, not just dinosaurs being made, but that's that's the that's the kind of thing that they want to stop in in Dominion. I wanted more from Wu, yeah, and I think reading Frankenstein, he is Frankenstein in this series. And uh when watching uh Dominion and his change um from Fallen Kingdom, uh what I wanted from the end of Fallen Kingdom is uh him to run away, essentially, be chased in into the woods by his creations and then have to go on this journey. And maybe at the start of Dominion we find him, and that's the start of Dominion on a boat. Like go full hog, do it. He's on a boat, he's trying to evade capture from people who want his technology, and you can still have the Mosasaur scene and everything like that, and maybe that's why that's how Dodgen gets him, is rescuing him from this situation. And I just think in my mind now, that is that is set in stone now. I thought it, and in my mind, it definitely I can make it work. Um yeah, BD Wong, call me. We'll we'll we'll we'll work this out. Otherwise, you just have Wu who's just constantly plucked out of situations and manipulated by other people. Just and you again with the relationship between Claire and Owen, we're missing out the really fun bits of the story. They might be the difficult bits, but I think they're the most interesting bits. You know, what what happened when Claire and Owen broke up? What happened when Dr. Wu became Mr. Wu? You know, there's all these little things that are in there, but we don't get the interesting bit of the story, we just get the revelation sometimes. Yeah. And I just wanted a bit more of that gothic nature to spill into Dominion, which didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah, I I agree. I think it would have been a little more fun to have Wu do a little more in in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

And you know, again, I I understand like movies, we've got we've got a limited amount of time to do what they want to do. Yeah. But always going back to why can't we have books that are you know the supplemental material? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think it would be really fun to have like a woo POV, you know, if if this was a book. Um, I'd want to know what he's thinking. Like, how does he get in these situations again and again?

SPEAKER_00 37:50

I know. Just like plucked out to the helicopter, imaginally, and so from Dominion, so from Jurassic World, he's sent from there to the the layer of uh Lockwood Manor. How does he get there? That's where he's dumped off. Yeah, what's that happened about? And then suddenly in Dominion he's in Biosyn Valley. And he's like, why where does like is it he's just being plucked out and he's just appearing on the scene in all these different people in all these different places, and I I feel like he never gets his true moment, apart from maybe the end of Dominion a little bit, but I just wanted him to like have a moment where he screams and shouts at the people who have like uh uh Dodgson or something. I uh you know, just has that freak out moment.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Yeah, no, it would have been uh obviously kind of a departure from the um what the story was, but I think it would have been cool too, like if we could have a woo be like, I'm gonna go destroy and delete all of this data and all of the, you know. Yeah. Um, because I mean he would know how to do it and you know, in a more elegant way than like mentoring, you know, kind of destroyed the system. Like, oh, I'm gonna go, you know, delete, mess up, mess up the DNA code, whatever, you know, how whatever's in the um, you know, their database for creating dinosaurs. I think that would have been a cool, like, let's try and sabotage my own work because I'm pissed at these people and I need to get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah, like like in Frankenstein where the creature demands a mate to be made and he just destroys all of his own work. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's a really good idea. I think that would be that would be I always I was when I was talking to Steven about this, was like the fact that somebody needed to sacrifice themselves at the end of Dominion. Somebody needed to go. And yeah, he said about Malcolm and I said about Wu being the one to, but yeah, that tying into maybe him going running back in at the end of Dominion and being left there, smashing up his own stuff and his fate is maybe Yeah, a kind of go down with the ship kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Like it. Yeah, I think that would have been cool. Yeah, kind of added more to that like that gothic feel of like the creator he needs to do something. Like what what happened?

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yes, yeah. A big return in this film is bringing back Ian Malcolm. When you first watched it, did you understand that they were two separate um courtroom scenes? Because when I first watched it, I was just like, he's sitting in the same place. It's the same I don't know. I just wanted a bit more, again, a bit more of an introduction to the scene. Him walking in, a bit more of a dramatic entrance or uh either end of the film, really.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

No, I I agree. I don't like it was nice to have him back and have someone who had experience with the dinosaurs and the island and everything being there and you know, being like, nah, they have their chance, like it's fine. So I think that worked better than like just a random, you know, or just the people that were there talking about it, and it was just you know a bunch of random people. But yeah, I feel like some more kind of introduction, because I feel like it was almost, you know, going from yes, we know we're in a Jurassic movie, but we start out with the amazing prologue and having you know, diving right in there and then switching to a courtroom drama scene.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

I mean, like yeah, and that terrible BBC news thing. Yeah, just I I really dislike that and I dislike the now this at the start.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Oh yeah, I'm I'm okay with the now this.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Um I think I I think particularly when you take out the T-Rex attacking the cinema, yeah, and then you start with, I just feel like I wanted to see the stuff that was going on in those clips. I wanted to be there and doing all that sort of stuff, but I don't like it when people tell me what, you know, just give me a card to read just before we go in and watch it. It's the same thing. Yeah. Just give me a card.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

Have the Star Wars scroll at the beginning. It's like, here's where we are. Yeah. Yeah. So I I like that there was discussion of you know the destruction of the island and like should we save them? But I didn't necessarily like that courtroom scene. Like, I think it could have been done a little bit differently. Um, you know, like you said, maybe have a dramatic entrance from Malcolm because if anybody's gonna have a dramatic entrance, it's gonna be Malcolm like walking in late or something, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Yeah, I just if it felt tacked on, but it was in the first draft that they did, it was one of and it was there all the time, and yeah, it feels like you're just throwing this character in. And I said maybe they didn't want to go down, maybe they thought it was a little bit too fan service-y if you kind of build him up too much. But come on, we we want that. Like I think I would buy that, I want that sort of thing from my characters that I enjoy watching. I want them to have a bit of bit of an entrance, please.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, when but the stills of that came out before the movie, like I think we're all trying to figure out who else was in the courtroom scene. Like, if there were more people behind us, and we're like, does that does that look like Tim? Like it's that Billy Brennan, right? Um, of course, no, but uh yeah, I don't know. I think that a little more it could have been done with that scene. Like, might as well. I mean, we're doing the fan service, we obviously did fan service in Dominion. Might as well like leaned into it a little bit harder and and had maybe Billy Brennan be in the back or get Vance Vaughn back, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

I always yeah, I always thought like when they have the clips at the start of I wanted a bit more of the the the people from the other films really in um Jurassic World Dominion. If it was me, I'd have Inid Oklahoma and they're having a barbecue, and suddenly it's um it's Eric, he's off. I I don't know, he's just graduated, and suddenly some Pteranodons come and attack. their little their their little barbecue. And that would have cost far too much to get uh Te Leone and all of them back in for that one one shot. But again, supplementary material. We we we we can write this now.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Yeah and I mean that's uh I think something that I'm glad not only we got to explore with the marketing, but that I got to be a part of with uh the Dominion marketing. Because I know that was I feel like we all wanted more of those little moments in like the real world. And so I think it was a great play on on Universal's part to actually bring some of us fans in and be able to write some of those things. And I pushed hard for JP3 stuff to be included. We do have some uh you know Kirby hints here and there um like hidden in the stuff so I think it's it led to a good spot. I think Fallen Kingdom could have had a little bit more of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

How was it working on that?

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Oh it was so fun um like peak Jurassic fan like I'm I'm never gonna have anything cooler than that. But no it was it was really great to be able to get to take you know all of our fan ideas and wants and go, okay, let's expand on this what would people actually be doing if there were dinosaurs in the real world and you know of course universal guiding everything um and the whole team working with them. But I feel like as the fans we got to go hey can we do this? Can we have a callback to this? Can we have the you know JP3 Raptors and of course they reined us in on some things but um right okay it was really fun to to be able to expand upon that where we you know I think a lot of fans felt like maybe Fallen Kingdom was lacking in some of those things and like those end clips you know which have I feel like have spanned a lot of um like uh Tom uh I think you talked to him previously yeah with his uh the Tales from the Jurassic you know kind of a spinoff of all of those those kind of things that the fans wanted so yeah it was it was a great time um and I'm glad we got to have those like additional stories and that that marketing that Universal actually put effort in um into that marketing for for the fans.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yeah so big I remember yeah it was you know what was for me I was look you know following the Dino tracker and everybody's like YouTube videos about what they'd seen on there and it I think some of those clips were like more satisfying than some of the actual dinosaur moments that we that I watched in Dominion eventually. So yeah it was a big bit of work that you and all the team did and it was yeah very much that's that's really nice to hear yeah because yeah I think I think it was as a Jurassic fan like that's what I want I want to see the dinosaurs just being dinosaurs like I think that's yeah kind of um you know again why I'm excited about uh rebirth is we're getting to you know these dinosaurs are just out there by themselves though and we get to see them just being dinosaurs and animals you know protecting their nest in in you know the clips yeah so yeah no it was really great to explore and I still am mind-boggled that I got to be a part of it in some way but uh no it was a great time and yeah no I I hope I hope Universal does the similar things like to expand on the lore in the future yeah yeah I think Colin was instrumental in that uh from what from what I hear so yeah we got him to thank for all the expanded stuff that happened and yeah I I really hope that we get that we do get more I'd love more books I would really like more books.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

I would love books. I loved Claire's book uh The Evolution of Claire I think that was fantastic and Steven and I have have talked about that how great that was and just being able to see you know again it's the supplemental material like in between things and like woo was there and you know like how Claire went through all of this shit on the island before she actually you know worked there as a you know in the corporate but yeah no I would I would always love more books in whatever way they could you know come about whether it's bridging all these random gaps or like backstories but you know I'm a book lover so I'm I will never say no to more books.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Yeah me too I don't I don't I don't even mind about the quality of them.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

I just want want those kind of like little tie-in books that they do for so many films and yet Jurassic always gets less than a lot of they could take a chapter from some other licensing like uh Star Wars books and um yeah lesser probably lesser known to the science but critical role they do like supplemental novels and they get new authors for each one so they we could do that and have a different vibe. We could have a horror book uh you know and get a horror writer and then have more of a we could have a romance Jurassic you know I mean yeah they could do whatever they wanted to if they wanted to like bridge bridge that gap into more supplemental stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Do you think it tie do you think with what we get in Dominion do you think Dominion is a satisfying conclusion given where this film ends?

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Uh yes with caveats I guess um I mean because I don't I never really view Dominion as a final anything like yes it was the end of the trilogy but you know they're not gonna stop making Jurassic stuff I did you know as I think people are probably divided on the bringing people uh you know the original three back and blending that in but I think it was a nice kind of blend of callback to with the movies and then ending kind of the Claire Owen arc um saying we had this you know we had this fun trilogy well maybe not so fun at sometimes because it made us cry in the theater but um still it's uh you know we had our trilogy it kind of I feel like it wrapped it up quite well and you know the dinosaurs are are out they're they're with humans your imagination goes from there I feel like um and I think for me stories don't have to have like that a hundred percent like everything is wrapped up at the end and leaving some of that to our imagination is is sometimes better than having a hundred percent of the answers. But yeah I don't know how you feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah I think conclusions are always difficult. That's why I really like middle films in trilogy sometimes is because they get to do all the setup for whatever massive conclusion there is but they don't have to worry about what that conclusion is. And sometimes I yeah as you the conclusion sometimes is the least interesting part of a story. It's the setup it's the journey it's all of that thing. So getting to the end you know there's I'm thinking there's very few stories where the final one is like your favourite in there and I'm in thinking like Lord of the Rings like the two towers ends with that epic battle that was just such I just love that film you know compared to the other two and it was just never going to the same with Dominion it was never going to be the big conclusion with the cast announcements that it kind of was saying that it was that it was saying that it was the big end of an era and all that sort of stuff. And then you see the film and you're like there's somebody that different the uh the the poster quotes for the actual people who are making the film sometimes. Oh yeah yeah I like the fact that at the end of Fallen Kingdom we get these brief moments amazingly shot as well the whole film but I love the you know that it it it ends at it's like sunset and you get blue overlooking I think it's so I think it's the same location as in ET.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Yes yeah yeah that was a nice little nod there.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Yeah he must get fed up when people watch I remember watching Ready Player One and they when they showed the first cut to him they were just he his note was can you take out more references to me please I can't there's too much I can't like you can have you can have the T-Rex and something else he said but I can't all be about me. But when you're dealing with Spielberg you would want you'd just be like like even the run bit when Owen's running out and it's clearly from Indiana Jones and you just like I don't know it's like trying to I mean you'd want to impress him wouldn't you you'd want to impress the teacher that is Steven Spielberg. Yeah I would I mean I've just I'd go out and just remake like Raiders of the Lost Ark just shot for shot shot for shot just this is not the this is not the script we gave you.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

I know but just just trying to show you how much I like you no and I think it's it's hard though too because like yes you want to impress Steven and you know he's in in the Jurassic world on obviously but so many of his movies are what people love about movies. Like they're iconic movies being like oh they all happen to be Steven Spielberg at the end of the day like you know Indiana Jones could be somebody else but it's not so if we want to make those references starry Steven like we're gonna have Indiana Jones, Jaws, E.T.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Jurassic, yeah all your big things but um no I think it it kind of uh two plays into just how iconic Steven Spielberg is in our you know movie world that's uh it's hard not to have those callbacks and um you know visual like references in your head you're like is that is that does that look like that whether or not people intend it to be um no which obviously like to your point the the the scene with blue at the end was obviously you know the ET uh for um purpose but um yeah yeah people people don't necessarily know that though too so it wasn't like an over you know exactly bash you in the head with here's you know ET in the background or although I think ET is again in the room with Maisie when the Indoraptor and there is a little ET that is you know toy that is flying around the room a hundred percent yeah just yeah no I I kind of like those though when they're like oh yeah wait you're in the same universe like yes yeah Maisie Maisie would love ID amazing well I'd just like to say thank you so much for for joining me today it's been it's been really fun to talk about this film. I think everything that this film tried to do is now slightly being walked back with rebirth it was meant to be the one to destroy the island also the human clone element slightly disappeared in Dominion. So it kind of stands by itself which I think is is quite nice and yeah I I I thoroughly enjoy it as a as a thrill ride of a film.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

I was wondering if you had any projects or anything you'd like to tell us about Jurassic Wise always Jurassic Outpost I will be at San Diego Comic Con next month. So while we don't have anything listed yet officially if Jurassic's gonna be there in any capacity we will be on the ground ready to cover whatever probably Mattel will have a you know some big display like they always do. So um yeah just Jurassic Outpost we're always trying to keep everyone updated on things so um and where where where can people find you online if indeed you want them to uh yeah no you can find me on Instagram I'm Samantha Joe8 or you know like I said Jurassic Outpost in both places um I talk a lot about books as well as dinosaurs so my huge thanks to Samantha for talking to me about Fallen Kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

I really hope this episode has made you think twice about that film and maybe want to go and watch it again and see it in a different light. Maybe lean in and just let go of yourself and enjoy the pulpy elements that it has to offer and also a film within the world trilogy that really puts the dinosaurs front and centre with some amazing animatronics. I've I've really grown to love this film and but next week I can't believe this, but I'm actually at the end of talking about all of the films. We've reached it we've reached 2022's uh Jurassic World Dominion and I can't think of a better way to wrap up all of these episodes that I've been doing than talking to the two people who which back in 2014 I first heard on the Jurassic podcast and their interview with Colin Trevaro. That sort of uh leads me now to doing this podcast for Rebirth. It's uh uh oh uh it's a really great conversation. I love talking to both Jack Ewins and Sam Phillips. If you like what you're listening to please remember to leave a review and a rating. It really does help this podcast find more people. Go and follow me over on Road to Rebirth Pod. I've still got some amazing guests to bring you even though we're at the end of the films. My review of Rebirth will be coming. We're so close people. So close. But for now I'll just say thank you very much for listening. Bye bye and goodbye.